Datasets:

---

innovation-hacking2

/

shitposting_dataset1

like 0

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol)." ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe." ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though." ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone." ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect." ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds." ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets." ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nUgh so sad I missed out on those keycaps" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nUgh so sad I missed out on those keycaps", ">\n\nBet it uses browns" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nUgh so sad I missed out on those keycaps", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nUgh so sad I missed out on those keycaps", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\nDidn't ask" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nUgh so sad I missed out on those keycaps", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\"." ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nUgh so sad I missed out on those keycaps", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nUgh so sad I missed out on those keycaps", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nUgh so sad I missed out on those keycaps", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nUgh so sad I missed out on those keycaps", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho" ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nUgh so sad I missed out on those keycaps", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap." ]

[ "holy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\n👎🏻", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?", ">\n\nOoooh you could do a dope American flag keyboard too!", ">\n\nholy shit gay keyboard (real)", ">\n\nhow much would you pay for the gayboard? honest question", ">\n\nid pay like 300-450 usd for that", ">\n\nThe GMGay", ">\n\nNice build! Does anyone know of a seperate numpad that is only five rows so it would be the same width as a 65%?", ">\n\nI'd recommend you just find a 5x5 PCB or custom order it and just 3d print a case via resin printer, with enough dampening they sound the acoustics should be good and a plate can be cut from a regular 60% plate or go full based plateless", ">\n\nI'm sure the PCB is for sale somewhere on its own\nEven if it's not, I'd send a case design to some printing factory because it shouldn't be more then a couple dollars (unless you plan on using metal)", ">\n\nI thought you had broken it lol", ">\n\nThe same bro hahaha", ">\n\nSomething smells fi-.... fruity?", ">\n\nNice gayboard", ">\n\nthis gay board looks awesome. to me, it brings to mind polaroid as well", ">\n\nThat's pretty gay 🥶\n( Kidding, Looks great! )", ">\n\nGreat, now you have to worry about two things in the closet.", ">\n\nAnyone watching the votes goes up and down lol?", ">\n\nLooks great and also a nice post for mods filter and ban the homophobes within this community!", ">\n\nKinda gay ngl", ">\n\nOk but did you put gay switches in?", ">\n\nLooks fabulous", ">\n\n[ removed by reddit ]", ">\n\nThat’s gay. \nAnd I like it. 😍", ">\n\nDid red dirty", ">\n\nLooking good! 🏳️‍🌈 Here’s mine on the bubble75", ">\n\nAw heck yes", ">\n\nIll be honest that Set is lazy", ">\n\nWhat are the boards? I've been looking for a cohesive wireless tkl and numpad combo", ">\n\nit's a JLabs Augur and KBDPad mk ii", ">\n\nI haven't been updated with the hobby for a long time now. Was there (wasn't there) some sort of controversy when the IC for this set came out before in geekhack?", ">\n\nThe creator of the set isn't a member of the LGBTQ+ community so it seemed a little tone-deaf to some other forum members, and the planned novelties were pretty cringe from what I gathered from the original thread (I believe one was the half-man-half-woman bathroom symbol).", ">\n\nSexy", ">\n\nlooks geh", ">\n\nThat’s gay", ">\n\ngay", ">\n\nHA. GAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY", ">\n\nthats bc youre incredibly unfunny", ">\n\nWell.. That just looks…\n( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)", ">\n\nWhy use gay board when you have RGB 🗿👍", ">\n\nEy yo it was a joke guys relax these keycap sets are fire. Damn can't believe I am looking like a homophobe rn", ">\n\nLook man I'm not going to downvote you but read the room. A joke can look like a completely inoffensive sentence to you but to the rest of us it can look like support our erasure. I'm not saying that's what you wrote but look at the other downvoted comments in here and I'm sure you'll agree there is similarity. 'Why use gay when you have...' is not a vibe.", ">\n\nYeah I am sorry if I came off as a homophobe, I got nothing against y'all and respect the efforts many of you genuinely try to make in the online space. My bad and sorry for making that comment once again. Honestly when I made that comment, only a few comments were there, so I couldn't really read the vibes", ">\n\nYou seem like a good person and I appreciate this comment. No need to apologise though it's just something that happens and hopefully you gain something from this. I can appreciate that the hateful comments weren't there before your comment though.", ">\n\nYeah it is fucked, I come here and see that multiple hidden comments are -50 and all and I immediately new what happened. It is a shame people really cannot move on from the olden times to new times of accepting everyone irrespective of their personal beliefs. Anyways y'all have a good one and ignore the negative commenters", ">\n\nYou're quite right. People have a need to shit on that which they don't understand or is different from themselves. Who people love is inconsequential to everyone else on the planet. Thankfully this old fashioned way of thinking is disappearing slowly and one day the human race will be able to progress once the old bigots are gone.", ">\n\nI think you misunderstood the usage of RGB. Basically they are LEDs that can assume all colors. You don't actually buy keycaps to make RGB", ">\n\nNgl that's gay", ">\n\nThat's gay", ">\n\nsounds gay. im in", ">\n\nboard Looking very good <3", ">\n\nReminds me of the old apple logo", ">\n\nI remember everyone trashed this set thinking it would be too similar to handarbeit. It’s surprisingly good. The color palette that was chosen is perfect.", ">\n\noh i didn’t think i needed this but now i need this", ">\n\nI love it so much! I'm glad to see other folks sharing pics of this set 🏳️‍🌈\nThis also reminds me I still need to do a new family photo of all my pride builds.", ">\n\nDope board 👍\nHonestly the keycap set alone seems like a great value. You get a lot of colors and it would probably mix well with other sets.", ">\n\nUgh so sad I missed out on those keycaps", ">\n\nBet it uses browns", ">\n\nMdude, your reddit avatar's background is a rainbow. Does that make you lame?", ">\n\nDidn't ask", ">\n\nDoesn't look like pride to me, tbh. My first association was \"fisher price\".", ">\n\nIt’s guess it’s political to express yourself now", ">\n\nI mean people get upset when US flags are flown… American patriotism is a form of expression but now frowned upon", ">\n\nyour friends aren’t gonna see your $500 keyboard with rainbow caps and think “this guy’s gay, lol”\nthey’re gonna think “this guy wasted $500 on a keyboard, lol”", ">\n\nhows the doubleshot ABS? idk if its worth it i really like the look tho", ">\n\nPretty sure ewhite is the best with colourful keycap.", ">\n\nWtf is this calculator on the right?" ]

[]

[ "Seeing that, I would like to know how often all keyboards on earth would circumnavigate the earth 🌎🌍⌨️" ]

[ "Seeing that, I would like to know how often all keyboards on earth would circumnavigate the earth 🌎🌍⌨️", ">\n\nGot a similar thing going on, but all mine are stacked together at the foot of my bed. The ones that predate carry cases, those are in magazine racks. I gotta clear some space to display em, but I have so many at this point I need an entire wall." ]

[ "Seeing that, I would like to know how often all keyboards on earth would circumnavigate the earth 🌎🌍⌨️", ">\n\nGot a similar thing going on, but all mine are stacked together at the foot of my bed. The ones that predate carry cases, those are in magazine racks. I gotta clear some space to display em, but I have so many at this point I need an entire wall.", ">\n\nI need pictures of all those keebs!" ]

[ "Seeing that, I would like to know how often all keyboards on earth would circumnavigate the earth 🌎🌍⌨️", ">\n\nGot a similar thing going on, but all mine are stacked together at the foot of my bed. The ones that predate carry cases, those are in magazine racks. I gotta clear some space to display em, but I have so many at this point I need an entire wall.", ">\n\nI need pictures of all those keebs!", ">\n\nI'm hoping to one day set up a proper photo session on a tripod and take pics of each one with their matching cables and deskmats. Do this for multiple shots from cool angles. Then drop the pics board by board for weeks on end. It's all I can do to find time to build em, sadly, let alone take and edit photos. Work lets me afford such extravagances, but leaves me with little time to really get those sweet sweet artistic shots this sub loves." ]

[ "Seeing that, I would like to know how often all keyboards on earth would circumnavigate the earth 🌎🌍⌨️", ">\n\nGot a similar thing going on, but all mine are stacked together at the foot of my bed. The ones that predate carry cases, those are in magazine racks. I gotta clear some space to display em, but I have so many at this point I need an entire wall.", ">\n\nI need pictures of all those keebs!", ">\n\nI'm hoping to one day set up a proper photo session on a tripod and take pics of each one with their matching cables and deskmats. Do this for multiple shots from cool angles. Then drop the pics board by board for weeks on end. It's all I can do to find time to build em, sadly, let alone take and edit photos. Work lets me afford such extravagances, but leaves me with little time to really get those sweet sweet artistic shots this sub loves.", ">\n\nSounds like a solid plan :D" ]

[ "Seeing that, I would like to know how often all keyboards on earth would circumnavigate the earth 🌎🌍⌨️", ">\n\nGot a similar thing going on, but all mine are stacked together at the foot of my bed. The ones that predate carry cases, those are in magazine racks. I gotta clear some space to display em, but I have so many at this point I need an entire wall.", ">\n\nI need pictures of all those keebs!", ">\n\nI'm hoping to one day set up a proper photo session on a tripod and take pics of each one with their matching cables and deskmats. Do this for multiple shots from cool angles. Then drop the pics board by board for weeks on end. It's all I can do to find time to build em, sadly, let alone take and edit photos. Work lets me afford such extravagances, but leaves me with little time to really get those sweet sweet artistic shots this sub loves.", ">\n\nSounds like a solid plan :D", ">\n\nDefinitely been thinking about it for a while now." ]

[ "Seeing that, I would like to know how often all keyboards on earth would circumnavigate the earth 🌎🌍⌨️", ">\n\nGot a similar thing going on, but all mine are stacked together at the foot of my bed. The ones that predate carry cases, those are in magazine racks. I gotta clear some space to display em, but I have so many at this point I need an entire wall.", ">\n\nI need pictures of all those keebs!", ">\n\nI'm hoping to one day set up a proper photo session on a tripod and take pics of each one with their matching cables and deskmats. Do this for multiple shots from cool angles. Then drop the pics board by board for weeks on end. It's all I can do to find time to build em, sadly, let alone take and edit photos. Work lets me afford such extravagances, but leaves me with little time to really get those sweet sweet artistic shots this sub loves.", ">\n\nSounds like a solid plan :D", ">\n\nDefinitely been thinking about it for a while now.", ">\n\nSeeing that, I would like to know how often all keyboards on earth would circumnavigate the earth 🌎🌍⌨️" ]

[ "Seeing that, I would like to know how often all keyboards on earth would circumnavigate the earth 🌎🌍⌨️", ">\n\nGot a similar thing going on, but all mine are stacked together at the foot of my bed. The ones that predate carry cases, those are in magazine racks. I gotta clear some space to display em, but I have so many at this point I need an entire wall.", ">\n\nI need pictures of all those keebs!", ">\n\nI'm hoping to one day set up a proper photo session on a tripod and take pics of each one with their matching cables and deskmats. Do this for multiple shots from cool angles. Then drop the pics board by board for weeks on end. It's all I can do to find time to build em, sadly, let alone take and edit photos. Work lets me afford such extravagances, but leaves me with little time to really get those sweet sweet artistic shots this sub loves.", ">\n\nSounds like a solid plan :D", ">\n\nDefinitely been thinking about it for a while now.", ">\n\nSeeing that, I would like to know how often all keyboards on earth would circumnavigate the earth 🌎🌍⌨️", ">\n\nGot a similar thing going on, but all mine are stacked together at the foot of my bed. The ones that predate carry cases, those are in magazine racks. I gotta clear some space to display em, but I have so many at this point I need an entire wall." ]

[ "Seeing that, I would like to know how often all keyboards on earth would circumnavigate the earth 🌎🌍⌨️", ">\n\nGot a similar thing going on, but all mine are stacked together at the foot of my bed. The ones that predate carry cases, those are in magazine racks. I gotta clear some space to display em, but I have so many at this point I need an entire wall.", ">\n\nI need pictures of all those keebs!", ">\n\nI'm hoping to one day set up a proper photo session on a tripod and take pics of each one with their matching cables and deskmats. Do this for multiple shots from cool angles. Then drop the pics board by board for weeks on end. It's all I can do to find time to build em, sadly, let alone take and edit photos. Work lets me afford such extravagances, but leaves me with little time to really get those sweet sweet artistic shots this sub loves.", ">\n\nSounds like a solid plan :D", ">\n\nDefinitely been thinking about it for a while now.", ">\n\nSeeing that, I would like to know how often all keyboards on earth would circumnavigate the earth 🌎🌍⌨️", ">\n\nGot a similar thing going on, but all mine are stacked together at the foot of my bed. The ones that predate carry cases, those are in magazine racks. I gotta clear some space to display em, but I have so many at this point I need an entire wall.", ">\n\nI need pictures of all those keebs!" ]

[ "Seeing that, I would like to know how often all keyboards on earth would circumnavigate the earth 🌎🌍⌨️", ">\n\nGot a similar thing going on, but all mine are stacked together at the foot of my bed. The ones that predate carry cases, those are in magazine racks. I gotta clear some space to display em, but I have so many at this point I need an entire wall.", ">\n\nI need pictures of all those keebs!", ">\n\nI'm hoping to one day set up a proper photo session on a tripod and take pics of each one with their matching cables and deskmats. Do this for multiple shots from cool angles. Then drop the pics board by board for weeks on end. It's all I can do to find time to build em, sadly, let alone take and edit photos. Work lets me afford such extravagances, but leaves me with little time to really get those sweet sweet artistic shots this sub loves.", ">\n\nSounds like a solid plan :D", ">\n\nDefinitely been thinking about it for a while now.", ">\n\nSeeing that, I would like to know how often all keyboards on earth would circumnavigate the earth 🌎🌍⌨️", ">\n\nGot a similar thing going on, but all mine are stacked together at the foot of my bed. The ones that predate carry cases, those are in magazine racks. I gotta clear some space to display em, but I have so many at this point I need an entire wall.", ">\n\nI need pictures of all those keebs!", ">\n\nI'm hoping to one day set up a proper photo session on a tripod and take pics of each one with their matching cables and deskmats. Do this for multiple shots from cool angles. Then drop the pics board by board for weeks on end. It's all I can do to find time to build em, sadly, let alone take and edit photos. Work lets me afford such extravagances, but leaves me with little time to really get those sweet sweet artistic shots this sub loves." ]

[ "Seeing that, I would like to know how often all keyboards on earth would circumnavigate the earth 🌎🌍⌨️", ">\n\nGot a similar thing going on, but all mine are stacked together at the foot of my bed. The ones that predate carry cases, those are in magazine racks. I gotta clear some space to display em, but I have so many at this point I need an entire wall.", ">\n\nI need pictures of all those keebs!", ">\n\nI'm hoping to one day set up a proper photo session on a tripod and take pics of each one with their matching cables and deskmats. Do this for multiple shots from cool angles. Then drop the pics board by board for weeks on end. It's all I can do to find time to build em, sadly, let alone take and edit photos. Work lets me afford such extravagances, but leaves me with little time to really get those sweet sweet artistic shots this sub loves.", ">\n\nSounds like a solid plan :D", ">\n\nDefinitely been thinking about it for a while now.", ">\n\nSeeing that, I would like to know how often all keyboards on earth would circumnavigate the earth 🌎🌍⌨️", ">\n\nGot a similar thing going on, but all mine are stacked together at the foot of my bed. The ones that predate carry cases, those are in magazine racks. I gotta clear some space to display em, but I have so many at this point I need an entire wall.", ">\n\nI need pictures of all those keebs!", ">\n\nI'm hoping to one day set up a proper photo session on a tripod and take pics of each one with their matching cables and deskmats. Do this for multiple shots from cool angles. Then drop the pics board by board for weeks on end. It's all I can do to find time to build em, sadly, let alone take and edit photos. Work lets me afford such extravagances, but leaves me with little time to really get those sweet sweet artistic shots this sub loves.", ">\n\nSounds like a solid plan :D" ]

[ "Seeing that, I would like to know how often all keyboards on earth would circumnavigate the earth 🌎🌍⌨️", ">\n\nGot a similar thing going on, but all mine are stacked together at the foot of my bed. The ones that predate carry cases, those are in magazine racks. I gotta clear some space to display em, but I have so many at this point I need an entire wall.", ">\n\nI need pictures of all those keebs!", ">\n\nI'm hoping to one day set up a proper photo session on a tripod and take pics of each one with their matching cables and deskmats. Do this for multiple shots from cool angles. Then drop the pics board by board for weeks on end. It's all I can do to find time to build em, sadly, let alone take and edit photos. Work lets me afford such extravagances, but leaves me with little time to really get those sweet sweet artistic shots this sub loves.", ">\n\nSounds like a solid plan :D", ">\n\nDefinitely been thinking about it for a while now.", ">\n\nSeeing that, I would like to know how often all keyboards on earth would circumnavigate the earth 🌎🌍⌨️", ">\n\nGot a similar thing going on, but all mine are stacked together at the foot of my bed. The ones that predate carry cases, those are in magazine racks. I gotta clear some space to display em, but I have so many at this point I need an entire wall.", ">\n\nI need pictures of all those keebs!", ">\n\nI'm hoping to one day set up a proper photo session on a tripod and take pics of each one with their matching cables and deskmats. Do this for multiple shots from cool angles. Then drop the pics board by board for weeks on end. It's all I can do to find time to build em, sadly, let alone take and edit photos. Work lets me afford such extravagances, but leaves me with little time to really get those sweet sweet artistic shots this sub loves.", ">\n\nSounds like a solid plan :D", ">\n\nDefinitely been thinking about it for a while now." ]

[]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand" ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?" ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?" ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind" ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it.", ">\n\nThat's a fair point and disproves the original argument, but I've already refined that argument into a better argument which you can see in my other posts." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it.", ">\n\nThat's a fair point and disproves the original argument, but I've already refined that argument into a better argument which you can see in my other posts.", ">\n\nThe goblins follow a lot of antisemitic stereotypes, even if it is accidental. Like, if I wrote a comic about a black person eating fried chicken, having an afro, talking loud at the movies, even if I was naive to the stereotypes that exist about black people, it would still be fair to call the comic I wrote racist.\nFurthermore, people who enjoy problematic media are not bad. Pretty much all media is problematic in some way. The problem is when people defend the problematic aspects of that media. Like, I'm a long time HP Lovecraft fan, he is a good writer, he has lots of very interesting stories and concepts that I enjoy reading. He also also undeniably racist, and his work definitely reflects that. I don't defend the racism, and I don't try to justify it as a product of his time. Would I still recommend people read his work? Absolutely. But I would probably warn people like \"hey his prose and narrative framing is enjoyable to read but it is straight up racist at times.\"" ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it.", ">\n\nThat's a fair point and disproves the original argument, but I've already refined that argument into a better argument which you can see in my other posts.", ">\n\nThe goblins follow a lot of antisemitic stereotypes, even if it is accidental. Like, if I wrote a comic about a black person eating fried chicken, having an afro, talking loud at the movies, even if I was naive to the stereotypes that exist about black people, it would still be fair to call the comic I wrote racist.\nFurthermore, people who enjoy problematic media are not bad. Pretty much all media is problematic in some way. The problem is when people defend the problematic aspects of that media. Like, I'm a long time HP Lovecraft fan, he is a good writer, he has lots of very interesting stories and concepts that I enjoy reading. He also also undeniably racist, and his work definitely reflects that. I don't defend the racism, and I don't try to justify it as a product of his time. Would I still recommend people read his work? Absolutely. But I would probably warn people like \"hey his prose and narrative framing is enjoyable to read but it is straight up racist at times.\"", ">\n\nThe word \"racism\", like most words, has multiple definitions. Would someone who wrote a comic like that have racist intentions? Probably, but it's impossible to ever actually prove so without them admitting it because we can't read minds. Would it make some people, including black people, feel like it's racist? Almost certainly, but some people genuinely think all sorts of absurd things are racist, so that on its own doesn't mean much. But the definition I think that's most meaningful, when asking if a piece of media specifically is racist is \"does it inspire anyone to behave in a racist manner in real life?\" Maybe your hypothetical comic would, but I haven't seen any antisemites who cite JK Rowling as an inspiration for their beliefs (and I've seen plenty of transphobes who do), so since you can't prove a negative, that means it's not accurate to call the goblins antisemitic." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it.", ">\n\nThat's a fair point and disproves the original argument, but I've already refined that argument into a better argument which you can see in my other posts.", ">\n\nThe goblins follow a lot of antisemitic stereotypes, even if it is accidental. Like, if I wrote a comic about a black person eating fried chicken, having an afro, talking loud at the movies, even if I was naive to the stereotypes that exist about black people, it would still be fair to call the comic I wrote racist.\nFurthermore, people who enjoy problematic media are not bad. Pretty much all media is problematic in some way. The problem is when people defend the problematic aspects of that media. Like, I'm a long time HP Lovecraft fan, he is a good writer, he has lots of very interesting stories and concepts that I enjoy reading. He also also undeniably racist, and his work definitely reflects that. I don't defend the racism, and I don't try to justify it as a product of his time. Would I still recommend people read his work? Absolutely. But I would probably warn people like \"hey his prose and narrative framing is enjoyable to read but it is straight up racist at times.\"", ">\n\nThe word \"racism\", like most words, has multiple definitions. Would someone who wrote a comic like that have racist intentions? Probably, but it's impossible to ever actually prove so without them admitting it because we can't read minds. Would it make some people, including black people, feel like it's racist? Almost certainly, but some people genuinely think all sorts of absurd things are racist, so that on its own doesn't mean much. But the definition I think that's most meaningful, when asking if a piece of media specifically is racist is \"does it inspire anyone to behave in a racist manner in real life?\" Maybe your hypothetical comic would, but I haven't seen any antisemites who cite JK Rowling as an inspiration for their beliefs (and I've seen plenty of transphobes who do), so since you can't prove a negative, that means it's not accurate to call the goblins antisemitic.", ">\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it.", ">\n\nThat's a fair point and disproves the original argument, but I've already refined that argument into a better argument which you can see in my other posts.", ">\n\nThe goblins follow a lot of antisemitic stereotypes, even if it is accidental. Like, if I wrote a comic about a black person eating fried chicken, having an afro, talking loud at the movies, even if I was naive to the stereotypes that exist about black people, it would still be fair to call the comic I wrote racist.\nFurthermore, people who enjoy problematic media are not bad. Pretty much all media is problematic in some way. The problem is when people defend the problematic aspects of that media. Like, I'm a long time HP Lovecraft fan, he is a good writer, he has lots of very interesting stories and concepts that I enjoy reading. He also also undeniably racist, and his work definitely reflects that. I don't defend the racism, and I don't try to justify it as a product of his time. Would I still recommend people read his work? Absolutely. But I would probably warn people like \"hey his prose and narrative framing is enjoyable to read but it is straight up racist at times.\"", ">\n\nThe word \"racism\", like most words, has multiple definitions. Would someone who wrote a comic like that have racist intentions? Probably, but it's impossible to ever actually prove so without them admitting it because we can't read minds. Would it make some people, including black people, feel like it's racist? Almost certainly, but some people genuinely think all sorts of absurd things are racist, so that on its own doesn't mean much. But the definition I think that's most meaningful, when asking if a piece of media specifically is racist is \"does it inspire anyone to behave in a racist manner in real life?\" Maybe your hypothetical comic would, but I haven't seen any antisemites who cite JK Rowling as an inspiration for their beliefs (and I've seen plenty of transphobes who do), so since you can't prove a negative, that means it's not accurate to call the goblins antisemitic.", ">\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.", ">\n\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.\n\nThat would eliminate a lot of good work because racists are stupid.\nFamously, Republicans and Democrats both equally liked Stephen Colbert despite him explicitly making a caricature of the right.\nDemocrats thought he was making fun of the right.\nAnd Republicans thought he was making fun of the left's image of the right.\nBoth enjoyed his show.\nAnd Dave Chappelle quit his show because he heard a white guy laugh too loudly at one of his jokes. But that doesnt mean his show wasn't still incredible biting social commentary. It just means idiots can misinterpret art." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it.", ">\n\nThat's a fair point and disproves the original argument, but I've already refined that argument into a better argument which you can see in my other posts.", ">\n\nThe goblins follow a lot of antisemitic stereotypes, even if it is accidental. Like, if I wrote a comic about a black person eating fried chicken, having an afro, talking loud at the movies, even if I was naive to the stereotypes that exist about black people, it would still be fair to call the comic I wrote racist.\nFurthermore, people who enjoy problematic media are not bad. Pretty much all media is problematic in some way. The problem is when people defend the problematic aspects of that media. Like, I'm a long time HP Lovecraft fan, he is a good writer, he has lots of very interesting stories and concepts that I enjoy reading. He also also undeniably racist, and his work definitely reflects that. I don't defend the racism, and I don't try to justify it as a product of his time. Would I still recommend people read his work? Absolutely. But I would probably warn people like \"hey his prose and narrative framing is enjoyable to read but it is straight up racist at times.\"", ">\n\nThe word \"racism\", like most words, has multiple definitions. Would someone who wrote a comic like that have racist intentions? Probably, but it's impossible to ever actually prove so without them admitting it because we can't read minds. Would it make some people, including black people, feel like it's racist? Almost certainly, but some people genuinely think all sorts of absurd things are racist, so that on its own doesn't mean much. But the definition I think that's most meaningful, when asking if a piece of media specifically is racist is \"does it inspire anyone to behave in a racist manner in real life?\" Maybe your hypothetical comic would, but I haven't seen any antisemites who cite JK Rowling as an inspiration for their beliefs (and I've seen plenty of transphobes who do), so since you can't prove a negative, that means it's not accurate to call the goblins antisemitic.", ">\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.", ">\n\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.\n\nThat would eliminate a lot of good work because racists are stupid.\nFamously, Republicans and Democrats both equally liked Stephen Colbert despite him explicitly making a caricature of the right.\nDemocrats thought he was making fun of the right.\nAnd Republicans thought he was making fun of the left's image of the right.\nBoth enjoyed his show.\nAnd Dave Chappelle quit his show because he heard a white guy laugh too loudly at one of his jokes. But that doesnt mean his show wasn't still incredible biting social commentary. It just means idiots can misinterpret art.", ">\n\n\nIt is my understanding of the concept of bigotry that if a book is \"overtly antisemitic\", and a Jewish person reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't realize it's antisemitic, they're really, really stupid.\n\nWhere is it contained in the concept of bigotry that either the bigotry must be immediately obvious? And why would it follow that because a piece of media has an offensive aspect that therefore people can't enjoy it at all even if it were immediately obvious?\nThe simple thing is that the goblins correlate very closely to a lot of historically racist/anti-Semitic ideas and attitudes that I can't believe JK Rowling would be unaware of. That's why people criticise it." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it.", ">\n\nThat's a fair point and disproves the original argument, but I've already refined that argument into a better argument which you can see in my other posts.", ">\n\nThe goblins follow a lot of antisemitic stereotypes, even if it is accidental. Like, if I wrote a comic about a black person eating fried chicken, having an afro, talking loud at the movies, even if I was naive to the stereotypes that exist about black people, it would still be fair to call the comic I wrote racist.\nFurthermore, people who enjoy problematic media are not bad. Pretty much all media is problematic in some way. The problem is when people defend the problematic aspects of that media. Like, I'm a long time HP Lovecraft fan, he is a good writer, he has lots of very interesting stories and concepts that I enjoy reading. He also also undeniably racist, and his work definitely reflects that. I don't defend the racism, and I don't try to justify it as a product of his time. Would I still recommend people read his work? Absolutely. But I would probably warn people like \"hey his prose and narrative framing is enjoyable to read but it is straight up racist at times.\"", ">\n\nThe word \"racism\", like most words, has multiple definitions. Would someone who wrote a comic like that have racist intentions? Probably, but it's impossible to ever actually prove so without them admitting it because we can't read minds. Would it make some people, including black people, feel like it's racist? Almost certainly, but some people genuinely think all sorts of absurd things are racist, so that on its own doesn't mean much. But the definition I think that's most meaningful, when asking if a piece of media specifically is racist is \"does it inspire anyone to behave in a racist manner in real life?\" Maybe your hypothetical comic would, but I haven't seen any antisemites who cite JK Rowling as an inspiration for their beliefs (and I've seen plenty of transphobes who do), so since you can't prove a negative, that means it's not accurate to call the goblins antisemitic.", ">\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.", ">\n\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.\n\nThat would eliminate a lot of good work because racists are stupid.\nFamously, Republicans and Democrats both equally liked Stephen Colbert despite him explicitly making a caricature of the right.\nDemocrats thought he was making fun of the right.\nAnd Republicans thought he was making fun of the left's image of the right.\nBoth enjoyed his show.\nAnd Dave Chappelle quit his show because he heard a white guy laugh too loudly at one of his jokes. But that doesnt mean his show wasn't still incredible biting social commentary. It just means idiots can misinterpret art.", ">\n\n\nIt is my understanding of the concept of bigotry that if a book is \"overtly antisemitic\", and a Jewish person reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't realize it's antisemitic, they're really, really stupid.\n\nWhere is it contained in the concept of bigotry that either the bigotry must be immediately obvious? And why would it follow that because a piece of media has an offensive aspect that therefore people can't enjoy it at all even if it were immediately obvious?\nThe simple thing is that the goblins correlate very closely to a lot of historically racist/anti-Semitic ideas and attitudes that I can't believe JK Rowling would be unaware of. That's why people criticise it.", ">\n\nWhy single out goblins and hp then? Give me a sentient non human fantasy race and il give you the bigoted caricature of real life culture it resembles." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it.", ">\n\nThat's a fair point and disproves the original argument, but I've already refined that argument into a better argument which you can see in my other posts.", ">\n\nThe goblins follow a lot of antisemitic stereotypes, even if it is accidental. Like, if I wrote a comic about a black person eating fried chicken, having an afro, talking loud at the movies, even if I was naive to the stereotypes that exist about black people, it would still be fair to call the comic I wrote racist.\nFurthermore, people who enjoy problematic media are not bad. Pretty much all media is problematic in some way. The problem is when people defend the problematic aspects of that media. Like, I'm a long time HP Lovecraft fan, he is a good writer, he has lots of very interesting stories and concepts that I enjoy reading. He also also undeniably racist, and his work definitely reflects that. I don't defend the racism, and I don't try to justify it as a product of his time. Would I still recommend people read his work? Absolutely. But I would probably warn people like \"hey his prose and narrative framing is enjoyable to read but it is straight up racist at times.\"", ">\n\nThe word \"racism\", like most words, has multiple definitions. Would someone who wrote a comic like that have racist intentions? Probably, but it's impossible to ever actually prove so without them admitting it because we can't read minds. Would it make some people, including black people, feel like it's racist? Almost certainly, but some people genuinely think all sorts of absurd things are racist, so that on its own doesn't mean much. But the definition I think that's most meaningful, when asking if a piece of media specifically is racist is \"does it inspire anyone to behave in a racist manner in real life?\" Maybe your hypothetical comic would, but I haven't seen any antisemites who cite JK Rowling as an inspiration for their beliefs (and I've seen plenty of transphobes who do), so since you can't prove a negative, that means it's not accurate to call the goblins antisemitic.", ">\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.", ">\n\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.\n\nThat would eliminate a lot of good work because racists are stupid.\nFamously, Republicans and Democrats both equally liked Stephen Colbert despite him explicitly making a caricature of the right.\nDemocrats thought he was making fun of the right.\nAnd Republicans thought he was making fun of the left's image of the right.\nBoth enjoyed his show.\nAnd Dave Chappelle quit his show because he heard a white guy laugh too loudly at one of his jokes. But that doesnt mean his show wasn't still incredible biting social commentary. It just means idiots can misinterpret art.", ">\n\n\nIt is my understanding of the concept of bigotry that if a book is \"overtly antisemitic\", and a Jewish person reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't realize it's antisemitic, they're really, really stupid.\n\nWhere is it contained in the concept of bigotry that either the bigotry must be immediately obvious? And why would it follow that because a piece of media has an offensive aspect that therefore people can't enjoy it at all even if it were immediately obvious?\nThe simple thing is that the goblins correlate very closely to a lot of historically racist/anti-Semitic ideas and attitudes that I can't believe JK Rowling would be unaware of. That's why people criticise it.", ">\n\nWhy single out goblins and hp then? Give me a sentient non human fantasy race and il give you the bigoted caricature of real life culture it resembles.", ">\n\nGoblins in Harry Potter are singled out because that's what OP made a thread about. Harry Potter is definitely not the only example of problematic depictions of goblins, and I'm sure there are other problematic creatures in fantasy. If there's some other depiction that you think is either problematic, or unfairly called problematic, make your own CMV post! But don't ask \"why single out goblins and hp\" in a comment on a thread titled \"the goblins in the Harry Potter books aren't antisemitic\" :)" ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it.", ">\n\nThat's a fair point and disproves the original argument, but I've already refined that argument into a better argument which you can see in my other posts.", ">\n\nThe goblins follow a lot of antisemitic stereotypes, even if it is accidental. Like, if I wrote a comic about a black person eating fried chicken, having an afro, talking loud at the movies, even if I was naive to the stereotypes that exist about black people, it would still be fair to call the comic I wrote racist.\nFurthermore, people who enjoy problematic media are not bad. Pretty much all media is problematic in some way. The problem is when people defend the problematic aspects of that media. Like, I'm a long time HP Lovecraft fan, he is a good writer, he has lots of very interesting stories and concepts that I enjoy reading. He also also undeniably racist, and his work definitely reflects that. I don't defend the racism, and I don't try to justify it as a product of his time. Would I still recommend people read his work? Absolutely. But I would probably warn people like \"hey his prose and narrative framing is enjoyable to read but it is straight up racist at times.\"", ">\n\nThe word \"racism\", like most words, has multiple definitions. Would someone who wrote a comic like that have racist intentions? Probably, but it's impossible to ever actually prove so without them admitting it because we can't read minds. Would it make some people, including black people, feel like it's racist? Almost certainly, but some people genuinely think all sorts of absurd things are racist, so that on its own doesn't mean much. But the definition I think that's most meaningful, when asking if a piece of media specifically is racist is \"does it inspire anyone to behave in a racist manner in real life?\" Maybe your hypothetical comic would, but I haven't seen any antisemites who cite JK Rowling as an inspiration for their beliefs (and I've seen plenty of transphobes who do), so since you can't prove a negative, that means it's not accurate to call the goblins antisemitic.", ">\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.", ">\n\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.\n\nThat would eliminate a lot of good work because racists are stupid.\nFamously, Republicans and Democrats both equally liked Stephen Colbert despite him explicitly making a caricature of the right.\nDemocrats thought he was making fun of the right.\nAnd Republicans thought he was making fun of the left's image of the right.\nBoth enjoyed his show.\nAnd Dave Chappelle quit his show because he heard a white guy laugh too loudly at one of his jokes. But that doesnt mean his show wasn't still incredible biting social commentary. It just means idiots can misinterpret art.", ">\n\n\nIt is my understanding of the concept of bigotry that if a book is \"overtly antisemitic\", and a Jewish person reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't realize it's antisemitic, they're really, really stupid.\n\nWhere is it contained in the concept of bigotry that either the bigotry must be immediately obvious? And why would it follow that because a piece of media has an offensive aspect that therefore people can't enjoy it at all even if it were immediately obvious?\nThe simple thing is that the goblins correlate very closely to a lot of historically racist/anti-Semitic ideas and attitudes that I can't believe JK Rowling would be unaware of. That's why people criticise it.", ">\n\nWhy single out goblins and hp then? Give me a sentient non human fantasy race and il give you the bigoted caricature of real life culture it resembles.", ">\n\nGoblins in Harry Potter are singled out because that's what OP made a thread about. Harry Potter is definitely not the only example of problematic depictions of goblins, and I'm sure there are other problematic creatures in fantasy. If there's some other depiction that you think is either problematic, or unfairly called problematic, make your own CMV post! But don't ask \"why single out goblins and hp\" in a comment on a thread titled \"the goblins in the Harry Potter books aren't antisemitic\" :)", ">\n\nWhat meant is that they're singled out by the controversy that inspired this cmv, not necessarily the people replying to this cmv. \nAnd yeah the big one is probably orcs. They map on to racist caricatures of plack people just as well as goblins of hp map onto caricatures of Jewish people. And they are far more ubiquitous in fantasy, yet I don't see anyone being outraged over it." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it.", ">\n\nThat's a fair point and disproves the original argument, but I've already refined that argument into a better argument which you can see in my other posts.", ">\n\nThe goblins follow a lot of antisemitic stereotypes, even if it is accidental. Like, if I wrote a comic about a black person eating fried chicken, having an afro, talking loud at the movies, even if I was naive to the stereotypes that exist about black people, it would still be fair to call the comic I wrote racist.\nFurthermore, people who enjoy problematic media are not bad. Pretty much all media is problematic in some way. The problem is when people defend the problematic aspects of that media. Like, I'm a long time HP Lovecraft fan, he is a good writer, he has lots of very interesting stories and concepts that I enjoy reading. He also also undeniably racist, and his work definitely reflects that. I don't defend the racism, and I don't try to justify it as a product of his time. Would I still recommend people read his work? Absolutely. But I would probably warn people like \"hey his prose and narrative framing is enjoyable to read but it is straight up racist at times.\"", ">\n\nThe word \"racism\", like most words, has multiple definitions. Would someone who wrote a comic like that have racist intentions? Probably, but it's impossible to ever actually prove so without them admitting it because we can't read minds. Would it make some people, including black people, feel like it's racist? Almost certainly, but some people genuinely think all sorts of absurd things are racist, so that on its own doesn't mean much. But the definition I think that's most meaningful, when asking if a piece of media specifically is racist is \"does it inspire anyone to behave in a racist manner in real life?\" Maybe your hypothetical comic would, but I haven't seen any antisemites who cite JK Rowling as an inspiration for their beliefs (and I've seen plenty of transphobes who do), so since you can't prove a negative, that means it's not accurate to call the goblins antisemitic.", ">\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.", ">\n\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.\n\nThat would eliminate a lot of good work because racists are stupid.\nFamously, Republicans and Democrats both equally liked Stephen Colbert despite him explicitly making a caricature of the right.\nDemocrats thought he was making fun of the right.\nAnd Republicans thought he was making fun of the left's image of the right.\nBoth enjoyed his show.\nAnd Dave Chappelle quit his show because he heard a white guy laugh too loudly at one of his jokes. But that doesnt mean his show wasn't still incredible biting social commentary. It just means idiots can misinterpret art.", ">\n\n\nIt is my understanding of the concept of bigotry that if a book is \"overtly antisemitic\", and a Jewish person reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't realize it's antisemitic, they're really, really stupid.\n\nWhere is it contained in the concept of bigotry that either the bigotry must be immediately obvious? And why would it follow that because a piece of media has an offensive aspect that therefore people can't enjoy it at all even if it were immediately obvious?\nThe simple thing is that the goblins correlate very closely to a lot of historically racist/anti-Semitic ideas and attitudes that I can't believe JK Rowling would be unaware of. That's why people criticise it.", ">\n\nWhy single out goblins and hp then? Give me a sentient non human fantasy race and il give you the bigoted caricature of real life culture it resembles.", ">\n\nGoblins in Harry Potter are singled out because that's what OP made a thread about. Harry Potter is definitely not the only example of problematic depictions of goblins, and I'm sure there are other problematic creatures in fantasy. If there's some other depiction that you think is either problematic, or unfairly called problematic, make your own CMV post! But don't ask \"why single out goblins and hp\" in a comment on a thread titled \"the goblins in the Harry Potter books aren't antisemitic\" :)", ">\n\nWhat meant is that they're singled out by the controversy that inspired this cmv, not necessarily the people replying to this cmv. \nAnd yeah the big one is probably orcs. They map on to racist caricatures of plack people just as well as goblins of hp map onto caricatures of Jewish people. And they are far more ubiquitous in fantasy, yet I don't see anyone being outraged over it.", ">\n\nErm, I'm not Jewish, and I definitely remember reading the books when they came out and cringing at the goblins hitting so many \"awful Jewish stereotype\" notes....\nI'm assuming that Jewish people noticed that too. Do you really think no one reads things that have negative stereotypes of their group in them? I'm a woman and I've read books where I've flat out yelled at the book for some idiotic female stereotyping. Some of them even books that I otherwise really enjoyed." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it.", ">\n\nThat's a fair point and disproves the original argument, but I've already refined that argument into a better argument which you can see in my other posts.", ">\n\nThe goblins follow a lot of antisemitic stereotypes, even if it is accidental. Like, if I wrote a comic about a black person eating fried chicken, having an afro, talking loud at the movies, even if I was naive to the stereotypes that exist about black people, it would still be fair to call the comic I wrote racist.\nFurthermore, people who enjoy problematic media are not bad. Pretty much all media is problematic in some way. The problem is when people defend the problematic aspects of that media. Like, I'm a long time HP Lovecraft fan, he is a good writer, he has lots of very interesting stories and concepts that I enjoy reading. He also also undeniably racist, and his work definitely reflects that. I don't defend the racism, and I don't try to justify it as a product of his time. Would I still recommend people read his work? Absolutely. But I would probably warn people like \"hey his prose and narrative framing is enjoyable to read but it is straight up racist at times.\"", ">\n\nThe word \"racism\", like most words, has multiple definitions. Would someone who wrote a comic like that have racist intentions? Probably, but it's impossible to ever actually prove so without them admitting it because we can't read minds. Would it make some people, including black people, feel like it's racist? Almost certainly, but some people genuinely think all sorts of absurd things are racist, so that on its own doesn't mean much. But the definition I think that's most meaningful, when asking if a piece of media specifically is racist is \"does it inspire anyone to behave in a racist manner in real life?\" Maybe your hypothetical comic would, but I haven't seen any antisemites who cite JK Rowling as an inspiration for their beliefs (and I've seen plenty of transphobes who do), so since you can't prove a negative, that means it's not accurate to call the goblins antisemitic.", ">\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.", ">\n\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.\n\nThat would eliminate a lot of good work because racists are stupid.\nFamously, Republicans and Democrats both equally liked Stephen Colbert despite him explicitly making a caricature of the right.\nDemocrats thought he was making fun of the right.\nAnd Republicans thought he was making fun of the left's image of the right.\nBoth enjoyed his show.\nAnd Dave Chappelle quit his show because he heard a white guy laugh too loudly at one of his jokes. But that doesnt mean his show wasn't still incredible biting social commentary. It just means idiots can misinterpret art.", ">\n\n\nIt is my understanding of the concept of bigotry that if a book is \"overtly antisemitic\", and a Jewish person reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't realize it's antisemitic, they're really, really stupid.\n\nWhere is it contained in the concept of bigotry that either the bigotry must be immediately obvious? And why would it follow that because a piece of media has an offensive aspect that therefore people can't enjoy it at all even if it were immediately obvious?\nThe simple thing is that the goblins correlate very closely to a lot of historically racist/anti-Semitic ideas and attitudes that I can't believe JK Rowling would be unaware of. That's why people criticise it.", ">\n\nWhy single out goblins and hp then? Give me a sentient non human fantasy race and il give you the bigoted caricature of real life culture it resembles.", ">\n\nGoblins in Harry Potter are singled out because that's what OP made a thread about. Harry Potter is definitely not the only example of problematic depictions of goblins, and I'm sure there are other problematic creatures in fantasy. If there's some other depiction that you think is either problematic, or unfairly called problematic, make your own CMV post! But don't ask \"why single out goblins and hp\" in a comment on a thread titled \"the goblins in the Harry Potter books aren't antisemitic\" :)", ">\n\nWhat meant is that they're singled out by the controversy that inspired this cmv, not necessarily the people replying to this cmv. \nAnd yeah the big one is probably orcs. They map on to racist caricatures of plack people just as well as goblins of hp map onto caricatures of Jewish people. And they are far more ubiquitous in fantasy, yet I don't see anyone being outraged over it.", ">\n\nErm, I'm not Jewish, and I definitely remember reading the books when they came out and cringing at the goblins hitting so many \"awful Jewish stereotype\" notes....\nI'm assuming that Jewish people noticed that too. Do you really think no one reads things that have negative stereotypes of their group in them? I'm a woman and I've read books where I've flat out yelled at the book for some idiotic female stereotyping. Some of them even books that I otherwise really enjoyed.", ">\n\n\nJust like JKR named an Asian student Cho Chang, she can have blindspots in terms of her use of fantasy tropes that lean into certain forms of bigotry.\n\nI always find the critiques of the names so narrowly focused and don't look at the rest of the characters.\nLike is Cho Chang a very basic and reductive name? Sure.\nBut so is Seamus Finnegan for an irish kid. \nand same for basically anyone in the story that wasn't straight english. It was basically to let the audience know where these characters origins were from.\nAnd lets look at some other basic names.\nDraco Malfoy means bad trusting snake.\nAnd Severus Snape once again sounds like an evil snake man.\nAnd Remus Lupin means wolf moon.\nHarry Potter was a children's series with very basic names that give you an immediate sense of who these characters are. Reading too deep into them just seems asinine" ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it.", ">\n\nThat's a fair point and disproves the original argument, but I've already refined that argument into a better argument which you can see in my other posts.", ">\n\nThe goblins follow a lot of antisemitic stereotypes, even if it is accidental. Like, if I wrote a comic about a black person eating fried chicken, having an afro, talking loud at the movies, even if I was naive to the stereotypes that exist about black people, it would still be fair to call the comic I wrote racist.\nFurthermore, people who enjoy problematic media are not bad. Pretty much all media is problematic in some way. The problem is when people defend the problematic aspects of that media. Like, I'm a long time HP Lovecraft fan, he is a good writer, he has lots of very interesting stories and concepts that I enjoy reading. He also also undeniably racist, and his work definitely reflects that. I don't defend the racism, and I don't try to justify it as a product of his time. Would I still recommend people read his work? Absolutely. But I would probably warn people like \"hey his prose and narrative framing is enjoyable to read but it is straight up racist at times.\"", ">\n\nThe word \"racism\", like most words, has multiple definitions. Would someone who wrote a comic like that have racist intentions? Probably, but it's impossible to ever actually prove so without them admitting it because we can't read minds. Would it make some people, including black people, feel like it's racist? Almost certainly, but some people genuinely think all sorts of absurd things are racist, so that on its own doesn't mean much. But the definition I think that's most meaningful, when asking if a piece of media specifically is racist is \"does it inspire anyone to behave in a racist manner in real life?\" Maybe your hypothetical comic would, but I haven't seen any antisemites who cite JK Rowling as an inspiration for their beliefs (and I've seen plenty of transphobes who do), so since you can't prove a negative, that means it's not accurate to call the goblins antisemitic.", ">\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.", ">\n\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.\n\nThat would eliminate a lot of good work because racists are stupid.\nFamously, Republicans and Democrats both equally liked Stephen Colbert despite him explicitly making a caricature of the right.\nDemocrats thought he was making fun of the right.\nAnd Republicans thought he was making fun of the left's image of the right.\nBoth enjoyed his show.\nAnd Dave Chappelle quit his show because he heard a white guy laugh too loudly at one of his jokes. But that doesnt mean his show wasn't still incredible biting social commentary. It just means idiots can misinterpret art.", ">\n\n\nIt is my understanding of the concept of bigotry that if a book is \"overtly antisemitic\", and a Jewish person reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't realize it's antisemitic, they're really, really stupid.\n\nWhere is it contained in the concept of bigotry that either the bigotry must be immediately obvious? And why would it follow that because a piece of media has an offensive aspect that therefore people can't enjoy it at all even if it were immediately obvious?\nThe simple thing is that the goblins correlate very closely to a lot of historically racist/anti-Semitic ideas and attitudes that I can't believe JK Rowling would be unaware of. That's why people criticise it.", ">\n\nWhy single out goblins and hp then? Give me a sentient non human fantasy race and il give you the bigoted caricature of real life culture it resembles.", ">\n\nGoblins in Harry Potter are singled out because that's what OP made a thread about. Harry Potter is definitely not the only example of problematic depictions of goblins, and I'm sure there are other problematic creatures in fantasy. If there's some other depiction that you think is either problematic, or unfairly called problematic, make your own CMV post! But don't ask \"why single out goblins and hp\" in a comment on a thread titled \"the goblins in the Harry Potter books aren't antisemitic\" :)", ">\n\nWhat meant is that they're singled out by the controversy that inspired this cmv, not necessarily the people replying to this cmv. \nAnd yeah the big one is probably orcs. They map on to racist caricatures of plack people just as well as goblins of hp map onto caricatures of Jewish people. And they are far more ubiquitous in fantasy, yet I don't see anyone being outraged over it.", ">\n\nErm, I'm not Jewish, and I definitely remember reading the books when they came out and cringing at the goblins hitting so many \"awful Jewish stereotype\" notes....\nI'm assuming that Jewish people noticed that too. Do you really think no one reads things that have negative stereotypes of their group in them? I'm a woman and I've read books where I've flat out yelled at the book for some idiotic female stereotyping. Some of them even books that I otherwise really enjoyed.", ">\n\n\nJust like JKR named an Asian student Cho Chang, she can have blindspots in terms of her use of fantasy tropes that lean into certain forms of bigotry.\n\nI always find the critiques of the names so narrowly focused and don't look at the rest of the characters.\nLike is Cho Chang a very basic and reductive name? Sure.\nBut so is Seamus Finnegan for an irish kid. \nand same for basically anyone in the story that wasn't straight english. It was basically to let the audience know where these characters origins were from.\nAnd lets look at some other basic names.\nDraco Malfoy means bad trusting snake.\nAnd Severus Snape once again sounds like an evil snake man.\nAnd Remus Lupin means wolf moon.\nHarry Potter was a children's series with very basic names that give you an immediate sense of who these characters are. Reading too deep into them just seems asinine", ">\n\nI don't understand this argument. It seems to be saying a work of art can't be racist if it's translated into the language of the supposed target of racism. It's like saying an anime can't have racist depictions of black people in it because the anime was translated into English and a lot of black people like the show. I sort of see where this is coming from, but I don't see how this works." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it.", ">\n\nThat's a fair point and disproves the original argument, but I've already refined that argument into a better argument which you can see in my other posts.", ">\n\nThe goblins follow a lot of antisemitic stereotypes, even if it is accidental. Like, if I wrote a comic about a black person eating fried chicken, having an afro, talking loud at the movies, even if I was naive to the stereotypes that exist about black people, it would still be fair to call the comic I wrote racist.\nFurthermore, people who enjoy problematic media are not bad. Pretty much all media is problematic in some way. The problem is when people defend the problematic aspects of that media. Like, I'm a long time HP Lovecraft fan, he is a good writer, he has lots of very interesting stories and concepts that I enjoy reading. He also also undeniably racist, and his work definitely reflects that. I don't defend the racism, and I don't try to justify it as a product of his time. Would I still recommend people read his work? Absolutely. But I would probably warn people like \"hey his prose and narrative framing is enjoyable to read but it is straight up racist at times.\"", ">\n\nThe word \"racism\", like most words, has multiple definitions. Would someone who wrote a comic like that have racist intentions? Probably, but it's impossible to ever actually prove so without them admitting it because we can't read minds. Would it make some people, including black people, feel like it's racist? Almost certainly, but some people genuinely think all sorts of absurd things are racist, so that on its own doesn't mean much. But the definition I think that's most meaningful, when asking if a piece of media specifically is racist is \"does it inspire anyone to behave in a racist manner in real life?\" Maybe your hypothetical comic would, but I haven't seen any antisemites who cite JK Rowling as an inspiration for their beliefs (and I've seen plenty of transphobes who do), so since you can't prove a negative, that means it's not accurate to call the goblins antisemitic.", ">\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.", ">\n\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.\n\nThat would eliminate a lot of good work because racists are stupid.\nFamously, Republicans and Democrats both equally liked Stephen Colbert despite him explicitly making a caricature of the right.\nDemocrats thought he was making fun of the right.\nAnd Republicans thought he was making fun of the left's image of the right.\nBoth enjoyed his show.\nAnd Dave Chappelle quit his show because he heard a white guy laugh too loudly at one of his jokes. But that doesnt mean his show wasn't still incredible biting social commentary. It just means idiots can misinterpret art.", ">\n\n\nIt is my understanding of the concept of bigotry that if a book is \"overtly antisemitic\", and a Jewish person reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't realize it's antisemitic, they're really, really stupid.\n\nWhere is it contained in the concept of bigotry that either the bigotry must be immediately obvious? And why would it follow that because a piece of media has an offensive aspect that therefore people can't enjoy it at all even if it were immediately obvious?\nThe simple thing is that the goblins correlate very closely to a lot of historically racist/anti-Semitic ideas and attitudes that I can't believe JK Rowling would be unaware of. That's why people criticise it.", ">\n\nWhy single out goblins and hp then? Give me a sentient non human fantasy race and il give you the bigoted caricature of real life culture it resembles.", ">\n\nGoblins in Harry Potter are singled out because that's what OP made a thread about. Harry Potter is definitely not the only example of problematic depictions of goblins, and I'm sure there are other problematic creatures in fantasy. If there's some other depiction that you think is either problematic, or unfairly called problematic, make your own CMV post! But don't ask \"why single out goblins and hp\" in a comment on a thread titled \"the goblins in the Harry Potter books aren't antisemitic\" :)", ">\n\nWhat meant is that they're singled out by the controversy that inspired this cmv, not necessarily the people replying to this cmv. \nAnd yeah the big one is probably orcs. They map on to racist caricatures of plack people just as well as goblins of hp map onto caricatures of Jewish people. And they are far more ubiquitous in fantasy, yet I don't see anyone being outraged over it.", ">\n\nErm, I'm not Jewish, and I definitely remember reading the books when they came out and cringing at the goblins hitting so many \"awful Jewish stereotype\" notes....\nI'm assuming that Jewish people noticed that too. Do you really think no one reads things that have negative stereotypes of their group in them? I'm a woman and I've read books where I've flat out yelled at the book for some idiotic female stereotyping. Some of them even books that I otherwise really enjoyed.", ">\n\n\nJust like JKR named an Asian student Cho Chang, she can have blindspots in terms of her use of fantasy tropes that lean into certain forms of bigotry.\n\nI always find the critiques of the names so narrowly focused and don't look at the rest of the characters.\nLike is Cho Chang a very basic and reductive name? Sure.\nBut so is Seamus Finnegan for an irish kid. \nand same for basically anyone in the story that wasn't straight english. It was basically to let the audience know where these characters origins were from.\nAnd lets look at some other basic names.\nDraco Malfoy means bad trusting snake.\nAnd Severus Snape once again sounds like an evil snake man.\nAnd Remus Lupin means wolf moon.\nHarry Potter was a children's series with very basic names that give you an immediate sense of who these characters are. Reading too deep into them just seems asinine", ">\n\nI don't understand this argument. It seems to be saying a work of art can't be racist if it's translated into the language of the supposed target of racism. It's like saying an anime can't have racist depictions of black people in it because the anime was translated into English and a lot of black people like the show. I sort of see where this is coming from, but I don't see how this works.", ">\n\nI think the most neutral way of putting it would be to say the goblins in hp are coded as antisemitic Jewish caricatures.\nNow is that itself antisemitic? I guess that's debatable. They aren't explisetly Jewish but in that case are the crows from Dumbo not racist just because they aren't black humans?" ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it.", ">\n\nThat's a fair point and disproves the original argument, but I've already refined that argument into a better argument which you can see in my other posts.", ">\n\nThe goblins follow a lot of antisemitic stereotypes, even if it is accidental. Like, if I wrote a comic about a black person eating fried chicken, having an afro, talking loud at the movies, even if I was naive to the stereotypes that exist about black people, it would still be fair to call the comic I wrote racist.\nFurthermore, people who enjoy problematic media are not bad. Pretty much all media is problematic in some way. The problem is when people defend the problematic aspects of that media. Like, I'm a long time HP Lovecraft fan, he is a good writer, he has lots of very interesting stories and concepts that I enjoy reading. He also also undeniably racist, and his work definitely reflects that. I don't defend the racism, and I don't try to justify it as a product of his time. Would I still recommend people read his work? Absolutely. But I would probably warn people like \"hey his prose and narrative framing is enjoyable to read but it is straight up racist at times.\"", ">\n\nThe word \"racism\", like most words, has multiple definitions. Would someone who wrote a comic like that have racist intentions? Probably, but it's impossible to ever actually prove so without them admitting it because we can't read minds. Would it make some people, including black people, feel like it's racist? Almost certainly, but some people genuinely think all sorts of absurd things are racist, so that on its own doesn't mean much. But the definition I think that's most meaningful, when asking if a piece of media specifically is racist is \"does it inspire anyone to behave in a racist manner in real life?\" Maybe your hypothetical comic would, but I haven't seen any antisemites who cite JK Rowling as an inspiration for their beliefs (and I've seen plenty of transphobes who do), so since you can't prove a negative, that means it's not accurate to call the goblins antisemitic.", ">\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.", ">\n\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.\n\nThat would eliminate a lot of good work because racists are stupid.\nFamously, Republicans and Democrats both equally liked Stephen Colbert despite him explicitly making a caricature of the right.\nDemocrats thought he was making fun of the right.\nAnd Republicans thought he was making fun of the left's image of the right.\nBoth enjoyed his show.\nAnd Dave Chappelle quit his show because he heard a white guy laugh too loudly at one of his jokes. But that doesnt mean his show wasn't still incredible biting social commentary. It just means idiots can misinterpret art.", ">\n\n\nIt is my understanding of the concept of bigotry that if a book is \"overtly antisemitic\", and a Jewish person reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't realize it's antisemitic, they're really, really stupid.\n\nWhere is it contained in the concept of bigotry that either the bigotry must be immediately obvious? And why would it follow that because a piece of media has an offensive aspect that therefore people can't enjoy it at all even if it were immediately obvious?\nThe simple thing is that the goblins correlate very closely to a lot of historically racist/anti-Semitic ideas and attitudes that I can't believe JK Rowling would be unaware of. That's why people criticise it.", ">\n\nWhy single out goblins and hp then? Give me a sentient non human fantasy race and il give you the bigoted caricature of real life culture it resembles.", ">\n\nGoblins in Harry Potter are singled out because that's what OP made a thread about. Harry Potter is definitely not the only example of problematic depictions of goblins, and I'm sure there are other problematic creatures in fantasy. If there's some other depiction that you think is either problematic, or unfairly called problematic, make your own CMV post! But don't ask \"why single out goblins and hp\" in a comment on a thread titled \"the goblins in the Harry Potter books aren't antisemitic\" :)", ">\n\nWhat meant is that they're singled out by the controversy that inspired this cmv, not necessarily the people replying to this cmv. \nAnd yeah the big one is probably orcs. They map on to racist caricatures of plack people just as well as goblins of hp map onto caricatures of Jewish people. And they are far more ubiquitous in fantasy, yet I don't see anyone being outraged over it.", ">\n\nErm, I'm not Jewish, and I definitely remember reading the books when they came out and cringing at the goblins hitting so many \"awful Jewish stereotype\" notes....\nI'm assuming that Jewish people noticed that too. Do you really think no one reads things that have negative stereotypes of their group in them? I'm a woman and I've read books where I've flat out yelled at the book for some idiotic female stereotyping. Some of them even books that I otherwise really enjoyed.", ">\n\n\nJust like JKR named an Asian student Cho Chang, she can have blindspots in terms of her use of fantasy tropes that lean into certain forms of bigotry.\n\nI always find the critiques of the names so narrowly focused and don't look at the rest of the characters.\nLike is Cho Chang a very basic and reductive name? Sure.\nBut so is Seamus Finnegan for an irish kid. \nand same for basically anyone in the story that wasn't straight english. It was basically to let the audience know where these characters origins were from.\nAnd lets look at some other basic names.\nDraco Malfoy means bad trusting snake.\nAnd Severus Snape once again sounds like an evil snake man.\nAnd Remus Lupin means wolf moon.\nHarry Potter was a children's series with very basic names that give you an immediate sense of who these characters are. Reading too deep into them just seems asinine", ">\n\nI don't understand this argument. It seems to be saying a work of art can't be racist if it's translated into the language of the supposed target of racism. It's like saying an anime can't have racist depictions of black people in it because the anime was translated into English and a lot of black people like the show. I sort of see where this is coming from, but I don't see how this works.", ">\n\nI think the most neutral way of putting it would be to say the goblins in hp are coded as antisemitic Jewish caricatures.\nNow is that itself antisemitic? I guess that's debatable. They aren't explisetly Jewish but in that case are the crows from Dumbo not racist just because they aren't black humans?", ">\n\nI would guess that if you asked the people who made that movie when they made in the 1940s, they would say \"yeah, the crows are supposed to be black people\", and if you asked racists in the audience, they would say \"yeah, the crows are supposed to be black people\", but I can't ask them because they're all dead, but whether or not the crows in Dumbo are racist doesn't matter to me personally and whether the goblins in harry potter are does, because I regularly see people say \"the goblins in harry potter are antisemitic, therefore you're a bad person if you like harry potter\" by people who are very obviously just always thought Harry Potter was bad for apolitical reasons and found it frustrating when it was super popular so targeting people for liking it now that it's fallen from grace because its creator did shitty things is cathartic for them. I obviously can't prove all of their motivations, so I'm focusing on the part that is provable." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it.", ">\n\nThat's a fair point and disproves the original argument, but I've already refined that argument into a better argument which you can see in my other posts.", ">\n\nThe goblins follow a lot of antisemitic stereotypes, even if it is accidental. Like, if I wrote a comic about a black person eating fried chicken, having an afro, talking loud at the movies, even if I was naive to the stereotypes that exist about black people, it would still be fair to call the comic I wrote racist.\nFurthermore, people who enjoy problematic media are not bad. Pretty much all media is problematic in some way. The problem is when people defend the problematic aspects of that media. Like, I'm a long time HP Lovecraft fan, he is a good writer, he has lots of very interesting stories and concepts that I enjoy reading. He also also undeniably racist, and his work definitely reflects that. I don't defend the racism, and I don't try to justify it as a product of his time. Would I still recommend people read his work? Absolutely. But I would probably warn people like \"hey his prose and narrative framing is enjoyable to read but it is straight up racist at times.\"", ">\n\nThe word \"racism\", like most words, has multiple definitions. Would someone who wrote a comic like that have racist intentions? Probably, but it's impossible to ever actually prove so without them admitting it because we can't read minds. Would it make some people, including black people, feel like it's racist? Almost certainly, but some people genuinely think all sorts of absurd things are racist, so that on its own doesn't mean much. But the definition I think that's most meaningful, when asking if a piece of media specifically is racist is \"does it inspire anyone to behave in a racist manner in real life?\" Maybe your hypothetical comic would, but I haven't seen any antisemites who cite JK Rowling as an inspiration for their beliefs (and I've seen plenty of transphobes who do), so since you can't prove a negative, that means it's not accurate to call the goblins antisemitic.", ">\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.", ">\n\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.\n\nThat would eliminate a lot of good work because racists are stupid.\nFamously, Republicans and Democrats both equally liked Stephen Colbert despite him explicitly making a caricature of the right.\nDemocrats thought he was making fun of the right.\nAnd Republicans thought he was making fun of the left's image of the right.\nBoth enjoyed his show.\nAnd Dave Chappelle quit his show because he heard a white guy laugh too loudly at one of his jokes. But that doesnt mean his show wasn't still incredible biting social commentary. It just means idiots can misinterpret art.", ">\n\n\nIt is my understanding of the concept of bigotry that if a book is \"overtly antisemitic\", and a Jewish person reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't realize it's antisemitic, they're really, really stupid.\n\nWhere is it contained in the concept of bigotry that either the bigotry must be immediately obvious? And why would it follow that because a piece of media has an offensive aspect that therefore people can't enjoy it at all even if it were immediately obvious?\nThe simple thing is that the goblins correlate very closely to a lot of historically racist/anti-Semitic ideas and attitudes that I can't believe JK Rowling would be unaware of. That's why people criticise it.", ">\n\nWhy single out goblins and hp then? Give me a sentient non human fantasy race and il give you the bigoted caricature of real life culture it resembles.", ">\n\nGoblins in Harry Potter are singled out because that's what OP made a thread about. Harry Potter is definitely not the only example of problematic depictions of goblins, and I'm sure there are other problematic creatures in fantasy. If there's some other depiction that you think is either problematic, or unfairly called problematic, make your own CMV post! But don't ask \"why single out goblins and hp\" in a comment on a thread titled \"the goblins in the Harry Potter books aren't antisemitic\" :)", ">\n\nWhat meant is that they're singled out by the controversy that inspired this cmv, not necessarily the people replying to this cmv. \nAnd yeah the big one is probably orcs. They map on to racist caricatures of plack people just as well as goblins of hp map onto caricatures of Jewish people. And they are far more ubiquitous in fantasy, yet I don't see anyone being outraged over it.", ">\n\nErm, I'm not Jewish, and I definitely remember reading the books when they came out and cringing at the goblins hitting so many \"awful Jewish stereotype\" notes....\nI'm assuming that Jewish people noticed that too. Do you really think no one reads things that have negative stereotypes of their group in them? I'm a woman and I've read books where I've flat out yelled at the book for some idiotic female stereotyping. Some of them even books that I otherwise really enjoyed.", ">\n\n\nJust like JKR named an Asian student Cho Chang, she can have blindspots in terms of her use of fantasy tropes that lean into certain forms of bigotry.\n\nI always find the critiques of the names so narrowly focused and don't look at the rest of the characters.\nLike is Cho Chang a very basic and reductive name? Sure.\nBut so is Seamus Finnegan for an irish kid. \nand same for basically anyone in the story that wasn't straight english. It was basically to let the audience know where these characters origins were from.\nAnd lets look at some other basic names.\nDraco Malfoy means bad trusting snake.\nAnd Severus Snape once again sounds like an evil snake man.\nAnd Remus Lupin means wolf moon.\nHarry Potter was a children's series with very basic names that give you an immediate sense of who these characters are. Reading too deep into them just seems asinine", ">\n\nI don't understand this argument. It seems to be saying a work of art can't be racist if it's translated into the language of the supposed target of racism. It's like saying an anime can't have racist depictions of black people in it because the anime was translated into English and a lot of black people like the show. I sort of see where this is coming from, but I don't see how this works.", ">\n\nI think the most neutral way of putting it would be to say the goblins in hp are coded as antisemitic Jewish caricatures.\nNow is that itself antisemitic? I guess that's debatable. They aren't explisetly Jewish but in that case are the crows from Dumbo not racist just because they aren't black humans?", ">\n\nI would guess that if you asked the people who made that movie when they made in the 1940s, they would say \"yeah, the crows are supposed to be black people\", and if you asked racists in the audience, they would say \"yeah, the crows are supposed to be black people\", but I can't ask them because they're all dead, but whether or not the crows in Dumbo are racist doesn't matter to me personally and whether the goblins in harry potter are does, because I regularly see people say \"the goblins in harry potter are antisemitic, therefore you're a bad person if you like harry potter\" by people who are very obviously just always thought Harry Potter was bad for apolitical reasons and found it frustrating when it was super popular so targeting people for liking it now that it's fallen from grace because its creator did shitty things is cathartic for them. I obviously can't prove all of their motivations, so I'm focusing on the part that is provable.", ">\n\nWell I think the goblins are at best problematic, Rowling is kinda a piece of shit and the books/movies themselves are fine there is noting wrong with liking them (I guess unless you like them because they support your views on Jewish conspiracies and/or you what to support Rowling weird anti trans campaign)\nJust because you like something that does not mean others have to be wrong about why they dislike it." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it.", ">\n\nThat's a fair point and disproves the original argument, but I've already refined that argument into a better argument which you can see in my other posts.", ">\n\nThe goblins follow a lot of antisemitic stereotypes, even if it is accidental. Like, if I wrote a comic about a black person eating fried chicken, having an afro, talking loud at the movies, even if I was naive to the stereotypes that exist about black people, it would still be fair to call the comic I wrote racist.\nFurthermore, people who enjoy problematic media are not bad. Pretty much all media is problematic in some way. The problem is when people defend the problematic aspects of that media. Like, I'm a long time HP Lovecraft fan, he is a good writer, he has lots of very interesting stories and concepts that I enjoy reading. He also also undeniably racist, and his work definitely reflects that. I don't defend the racism, and I don't try to justify it as a product of his time. Would I still recommend people read his work? Absolutely. But I would probably warn people like \"hey his prose and narrative framing is enjoyable to read but it is straight up racist at times.\"", ">\n\nThe word \"racism\", like most words, has multiple definitions. Would someone who wrote a comic like that have racist intentions? Probably, but it's impossible to ever actually prove so without them admitting it because we can't read minds. Would it make some people, including black people, feel like it's racist? Almost certainly, but some people genuinely think all sorts of absurd things are racist, so that on its own doesn't mean much. But the definition I think that's most meaningful, when asking if a piece of media specifically is racist is \"does it inspire anyone to behave in a racist manner in real life?\" Maybe your hypothetical comic would, but I haven't seen any antisemites who cite JK Rowling as an inspiration for their beliefs (and I've seen plenty of transphobes who do), so since you can't prove a negative, that means it's not accurate to call the goblins antisemitic.", ">\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.", ">\n\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.\n\nThat would eliminate a lot of good work because racists are stupid.\nFamously, Republicans and Democrats both equally liked Stephen Colbert despite him explicitly making a caricature of the right.\nDemocrats thought he was making fun of the right.\nAnd Republicans thought he was making fun of the left's image of the right.\nBoth enjoyed his show.\nAnd Dave Chappelle quit his show because he heard a white guy laugh too loudly at one of his jokes. But that doesnt mean his show wasn't still incredible biting social commentary. It just means idiots can misinterpret art.", ">\n\n\nIt is my understanding of the concept of bigotry that if a book is \"overtly antisemitic\", and a Jewish person reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't realize it's antisemitic, they're really, really stupid.\n\nWhere is it contained in the concept of bigotry that either the bigotry must be immediately obvious? And why would it follow that because a piece of media has an offensive aspect that therefore people can't enjoy it at all even if it were immediately obvious?\nThe simple thing is that the goblins correlate very closely to a lot of historically racist/anti-Semitic ideas and attitudes that I can't believe JK Rowling would be unaware of. That's why people criticise it.", ">\n\nWhy single out goblins and hp then? Give me a sentient non human fantasy race and il give you the bigoted caricature of real life culture it resembles.", ">\n\nGoblins in Harry Potter are singled out because that's what OP made a thread about. Harry Potter is definitely not the only example of problematic depictions of goblins, and I'm sure there are other problematic creatures in fantasy. If there's some other depiction that you think is either problematic, or unfairly called problematic, make your own CMV post! But don't ask \"why single out goblins and hp\" in a comment on a thread titled \"the goblins in the Harry Potter books aren't antisemitic\" :)", ">\n\nWhat meant is that they're singled out by the controversy that inspired this cmv, not necessarily the people replying to this cmv. \nAnd yeah the big one is probably orcs. They map on to racist caricatures of plack people just as well as goblins of hp map onto caricatures of Jewish people. And they are far more ubiquitous in fantasy, yet I don't see anyone being outraged over it.", ">\n\nErm, I'm not Jewish, and I definitely remember reading the books when they came out and cringing at the goblins hitting so many \"awful Jewish stereotype\" notes....\nI'm assuming that Jewish people noticed that too. Do you really think no one reads things that have negative stereotypes of their group in them? I'm a woman and I've read books where I've flat out yelled at the book for some idiotic female stereotyping. Some of them even books that I otherwise really enjoyed.", ">\n\n\nJust like JKR named an Asian student Cho Chang, she can have blindspots in terms of her use of fantasy tropes that lean into certain forms of bigotry.\n\nI always find the critiques of the names so narrowly focused and don't look at the rest of the characters.\nLike is Cho Chang a very basic and reductive name? Sure.\nBut so is Seamus Finnegan for an irish kid. \nand same for basically anyone in the story that wasn't straight english. It was basically to let the audience know where these characters origins were from.\nAnd lets look at some other basic names.\nDraco Malfoy means bad trusting snake.\nAnd Severus Snape once again sounds like an evil snake man.\nAnd Remus Lupin means wolf moon.\nHarry Potter was a children's series with very basic names that give you an immediate sense of who these characters are. Reading too deep into them just seems asinine", ">\n\nI don't understand this argument. It seems to be saying a work of art can't be racist if it's translated into the language of the supposed target of racism. It's like saying an anime can't have racist depictions of black people in it because the anime was translated into English and a lot of black people like the show. I sort of see where this is coming from, but I don't see how this works.", ">\n\nI think the most neutral way of putting it would be to say the goblins in hp are coded as antisemitic Jewish caricatures.\nNow is that itself antisemitic? I guess that's debatable. They aren't explisetly Jewish but in that case are the crows from Dumbo not racist just because they aren't black humans?", ">\n\nI would guess that if you asked the people who made that movie when they made in the 1940s, they would say \"yeah, the crows are supposed to be black people\", and if you asked racists in the audience, they would say \"yeah, the crows are supposed to be black people\", but I can't ask them because they're all dead, but whether or not the crows in Dumbo are racist doesn't matter to me personally and whether the goblins in harry potter are does, because I regularly see people say \"the goblins in harry potter are antisemitic, therefore you're a bad person if you like harry potter\" by people who are very obviously just always thought Harry Potter was bad for apolitical reasons and found it frustrating when it was super popular so targeting people for liking it now that it's fallen from grace because its creator did shitty things is cathartic for them. I obviously can't prove all of their motivations, so I'm focusing on the part that is provable.", ">\n\nWell I think the goblins are at best problematic, Rowling is kinda a piece of shit and the books/movies themselves are fine there is noting wrong with liking them (I guess unless you like them because they support your views on Jewish conspiracies and/or you what to support Rowling weird anti trans campaign)\nJust because you like something that does not mean others have to be wrong about why they dislike it.", ">\n\nRowling is a piece of shit, and \"problematic\" is a perfectly accurate descriptor for them, because all it means is \"someone has a problem with this\", which applies to basically anything." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it.", ">\n\nThat's a fair point and disproves the original argument, but I've already refined that argument into a better argument which you can see in my other posts.", ">\n\nThe goblins follow a lot of antisemitic stereotypes, even if it is accidental. Like, if I wrote a comic about a black person eating fried chicken, having an afro, talking loud at the movies, even if I was naive to the stereotypes that exist about black people, it would still be fair to call the comic I wrote racist.\nFurthermore, people who enjoy problematic media are not bad. Pretty much all media is problematic in some way. The problem is when people defend the problematic aspects of that media. Like, I'm a long time HP Lovecraft fan, he is a good writer, he has lots of very interesting stories and concepts that I enjoy reading. He also also undeniably racist, and his work definitely reflects that. I don't defend the racism, and I don't try to justify it as a product of his time. Would I still recommend people read his work? Absolutely. But I would probably warn people like \"hey his prose and narrative framing is enjoyable to read but it is straight up racist at times.\"", ">\n\nThe word \"racism\", like most words, has multiple definitions. Would someone who wrote a comic like that have racist intentions? Probably, but it's impossible to ever actually prove so without them admitting it because we can't read minds. Would it make some people, including black people, feel like it's racist? Almost certainly, but some people genuinely think all sorts of absurd things are racist, so that on its own doesn't mean much. But the definition I think that's most meaningful, when asking if a piece of media specifically is racist is \"does it inspire anyone to behave in a racist manner in real life?\" Maybe your hypothetical comic would, but I haven't seen any antisemites who cite JK Rowling as an inspiration for their beliefs (and I've seen plenty of transphobes who do), so since you can't prove a negative, that means it's not accurate to call the goblins antisemitic.", ">\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.", ">\n\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.\n\nThat would eliminate a lot of good work because racists are stupid.\nFamously, Republicans and Democrats both equally liked Stephen Colbert despite him explicitly making a caricature of the right.\nDemocrats thought he was making fun of the right.\nAnd Republicans thought he was making fun of the left's image of the right.\nBoth enjoyed his show.\nAnd Dave Chappelle quit his show because he heard a white guy laugh too loudly at one of his jokes. But that doesnt mean his show wasn't still incredible biting social commentary. It just means idiots can misinterpret art.", ">\n\n\nIt is my understanding of the concept of bigotry that if a book is \"overtly antisemitic\", and a Jewish person reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't realize it's antisemitic, they're really, really stupid.\n\nWhere is it contained in the concept of bigotry that either the bigotry must be immediately obvious? And why would it follow that because a piece of media has an offensive aspect that therefore people can't enjoy it at all even if it were immediately obvious?\nThe simple thing is that the goblins correlate very closely to a lot of historically racist/anti-Semitic ideas and attitudes that I can't believe JK Rowling would be unaware of. That's why people criticise it.", ">\n\nWhy single out goblins and hp then? Give me a sentient non human fantasy race and il give you the bigoted caricature of real life culture it resembles.", ">\n\nGoblins in Harry Potter are singled out because that's what OP made a thread about. Harry Potter is definitely not the only example of problematic depictions of goblins, and I'm sure there are other problematic creatures in fantasy. If there's some other depiction that you think is either problematic, or unfairly called problematic, make your own CMV post! But don't ask \"why single out goblins and hp\" in a comment on a thread titled \"the goblins in the Harry Potter books aren't antisemitic\" :)", ">\n\nWhat meant is that they're singled out by the controversy that inspired this cmv, not necessarily the people replying to this cmv. \nAnd yeah the big one is probably orcs. They map on to racist caricatures of plack people just as well as goblins of hp map onto caricatures of Jewish people. And they are far more ubiquitous in fantasy, yet I don't see anyone being outraged over it.", ">\n\nErm, I'm not Jewish, and I definitely remember reading the books when they came out and cringing at the goblins hitting so many \"awful Jewish stereotype\" notes....\nI'm assuming that Jewish people noticed that too. Do you really think no one reads things that have negative stereotypes of their group in them? I'm a woman and I've read books where I've flat out yelled at the book for some idiotic female stereotyping. Some of them even books that I otherwise really enjoyed.", ">\n\n\nJust like JKR named an Asian student Cho Chang, she can have blindspots in terms of her use of fantasy tropes that lean into certain forms of bigotry.\n\nI always find the critiques of the names so narrowly focused and don't look at the rest of the characters.\nLike is Cho Chang a very basic and reductive name? Sure.\nBut so is Seamus Finnegan for an irish kid. \nand same for basically anyone in the story that wasn't straight english. It was basically to let the audience know where these characters origins were from.\nAnd lets look at some other basic names.\nDraco Malfoy means bad trusting snake.\nAnd Severus Snape once again sounds like an evil snake man.\nAnd Remus Lupin means wolf moon.\nHarry Potter was a children's series with very basic names that give you an immediate sense of who these characters are. Reading too deep into them just seems asinine", ">\n\nI don't understand this argument. It seems to be saying a work of art can't be racist if it's translated into the language of the supposed target of racism. It's like saying an anime can't have racist depictions of black people in it because the anime was translated into English and a lot of black people like the show. I sort of see where this is coming from, but I don't see how this works.", ">\n\nI think the most neutral way of putting it would be to say the goblins in hp are coded as antisemitic Jewish caricatures.\nNow is that itself antisemitic? I guess that's debatable. They aren't explisetly Jewish but in that case are the crows from Dumbo not racist just because they aren't black humans?", ">\n\nI would guess that if you asked the people who made that movie when they made in the 1940s, they would say \"yeah, the crows are supposed to be black people\", and if you asked racists in the audience, they would say \"yeah, the crows are supposed to be black people\", but I can't ask them because they're all dead, but whether or not the crows in Dumbo are racist doesn't matter to me personally and whether the goblins in harry potter are does, because I regularly see people say \"the goblins in harry potter are antisemitic, therefore you're a bad person if you like harry potter\" by people who are very obviously just always thought Harry Potter was bad for apolitical reasons and found it frustrating when it was super popular so targeting people for liking it now that it's fallen from grace because its creator did shitty things is cathartic for them. I obviously can't prove all of their motivations, so I'm focusing on the part that is provable.", ">\n\nWell I think the goblins are at best problematic, Rowling is kinda a piece of shit and the books/movies themselves are fine there is noting wrong with liking them (I guess unless you like them because they support your views on Jewish conspiracies and/or you what to support Rowling weird anti trans campaign)\nJust because you like something that does not mean others have to be wrong about why they dislike it.", ">\n\nRowling is a piece of shit, and \"problematic\" is a perfectly accurate descriptor for them, because all it means is \"someone has a problem with this\", which applies to basically anything.", ">\n\nI grew up in Israel. While I'm not much of a Harry Potter fan, I have read some of the books and am familiar with the goblins.\nA young Israeli reading the books in Hebrew would not likely have viewed the goblins as being caricatures of Jewish people, and if they did recognize the connection they may have assumed that they were imagining something that isn't there.\nIsraelis, by and large, are not exposed to antisemitism and antisemitic tropes in their daily lives. These are things that they learn about in school, but they seem largely academic and silly because they don't correspond to anything they perceive in the real world around them. They mainly interact with other Israelis, and while they may have negative stereotypes about themselves, none of these stereotypes correspond to any of the well known antisemitic caricatures.\nIt's similar to an American reading a book about a country of bloodthirsty, torture loving, brutes who live in abject squalor (such as Mordor in Lord of the Rings) and not recognizing the North Korean propoganda view of the US.\nI'd also point out that the works of known and unrepentant antisemites like Roald Dahl enjoy popularity in Israel and don't raise any real objections.\nJewish people living elsewhere have different experiences of course." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it.", ">\n\nThat's a fair point and disproves the original argument, but I've already refined that argument into a better argument which you can see in my other posts.", ">\n\nThe goblins follow a lot of antisemitic stereotypes, even if it is accidental. Like, if I wrote a comic about a black person eating fried chicken, having an afro, talking loud at the movies, even if I was naive to the stereotypes that exist about black people, it would still be fair to call the comic I wrote racist.\nFurthermore, people who enjoy problematic media are not bad. Pretty much all media is problematic in some way. The problem is when people defend the problematic aspects of that media. Like, I'm a long time HP Lovecraft fan, he is a good writer, he has lots of very interesting stories and concepts that I enjoy reading. He also also undeniably racist, and his work definitely reflects that. I don't defend the racism, and I don't try to justify it as a product of his time. Would I still recommend people read his work? Absolutely. But I would probably warn people like \"hey his prose and narrative framing is enjoyable to read but it is straight up racist at times.\"", ">\n\nThe word \"racism\", like most words, has multiple definitions. Would someone who wrote a comic like that have racist intentions? Probably, but it's impossible to ever actually prove so without them admitting it because we can't read minds. Would it make some people, including black people, feel like it's racist? Almost certainly, but some people genuinely think all sorts of absurd things are racist, so that on its own doesn't mean much. But the definition I think that's most meaningful, when asking if a piece of media specifically is racist is \"does it inspire anyone to behave in a racist manner in real life?\" Maybe your hypothetical comic would, but I haven't seen any antisemites who cite JK Rowling as an inspiration for their beliefs (and I've seen plenty of transphobes who do), so since you can't prove a negative, that means it's not accurate to call the goblins antisemitic.", ">\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.", ">\n\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.\n\nThat would eliminate a lot of good work because racists are stupid.\nFamously, Republicans and Democrats both equally liked Stephen Colbert despite him explicitly making a caricature of the right.\nDemocrats thought he was making fun of the right.\nAnd Republicans thought he was making fun of the left's image of the right.\nBoth enjoyed his show.\nAnd Dave Chappelle quit his show because he heard a white guy laugh too loudly at one of his jokes. But that doesnt mean his show wasn't still incredible biting social commentary. It just means idiots can misinterpret art.", ">\n\n\nIt is my understanding of the concept of bigotry that if a book is \"overtly antisemitic\", and a Jewish person reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't realize it's antisemitic, they're really, really stupid.\n\nWhere is it contained in the concept of bigotry that either the bigotry must be immediately obvious? And why would it follow that because a piece of media has an offensive aspect that therefore people can't enjoy it at all even if it were immediately obvious?\nThe simple thing is that the goblins correlate very closely to a lot of historically racist/anti-Semitic ideas and attitudes that I can't believe JK Rowling would be unaware of. That's why people criticise it.", ">\n\nWhy single out goblins and hp then? Give me a sentient non human fantasy race and il give you the bigoted caricature of real life culture it resembles.", ">\n\nGoblins in Harry Potter are singled out because that's what OP made a thread about. Harry Potter is definitely not the only example of problematic depictions of goblins, and I'm sure there are other problematic creatures in fantasy. If there's some other depiction that you think is either problematic, or unfairly called problematic, make your own CMV post! But don't ask \"why single out goblins and hp\" in a comment on a thread titled \"the goblins in the Harry Potter books aren't antisemitic\" :)", ">\n\nWhat meant is that they're singled out by the controversy that inspired this cmv, not necessarily the people replying to this cmv. \nAnd yeah the big one is probably orcs. They map on to racist caricatures of plack people just as well as goblins of hp map onto caricatures of Jewish people. And they are far more ubiquitous in fantasy, yet I don't see anyone being outraged over it.", ">\n\nErm, I'm not Jewish, and I definitely remember reading the books when they came out and cringing at the goblins hitting so many \"awful Jewish stereotype\" notes....\nI'm assuming that Jewish people noticed that too. Do you really think no one reads things that have negative stereotypes of their group in them? I'm a woman and I've read books where I've flat out yelled at the book for some idiotic female stereotyping. Some of them even books that I otherwise really enjoyed.", ">\n\n\nJust like JKR named an Asian student Cho Chang, she can have blindspots in terms of her use of fantasy tropes that lean into certain forms of bigotry.\n\nI always find the critiques of the names so narrowly focused and don't look at the rest of the characters.\nLike is Cho Chang a very basic and reductive name? Sure.\nBut so is Seamus Finnegan for an irish kid. \nand same for basically anyone in the story that wasn't straight english. It was basically to let the audience know where these characters origins were from.\nAnd lets look at some other basic names.\nDraco Malfoy means bad trusting snake.\nAnd Severus Snape once again sounds like an evil snake man.\nAnd Remus Lupin means wolf moon.\nHarry Potter was a children's series with very basic names that give you an immediate sense of who these characters are. Reading too deep into them just seems asinine", ">\n\nI don't understand this argument. It seems to be saying a work of art can't be racist if it's translated into the language of the supposed target of racism. It's like saying an anime can't have racist depictions of black people in it because the anime was translated into English and a lot of black people like the show. I sort of see where this is coming from, but I don't see how this works.", ">\n\nI think the most neutral way of putting it would be to say the goblins in hp are coded as antisemitic Jewish caricatures.\nNow is that itself antisemitic? I guess that's debatable. They aren't explisetly Jewish but in that case are the crows from Dumbo not racist just because they aren't black humans?", ">\n\nI would guess that if you asked the people who made that movie when they made in the 1940s, they would say \"yeah, the crows are supposed to be black people\", and if you asked racists in the audience, they would say \"yeah, the crows are supposed to be black people\", but I can't ask them because they're all dead, but whether or not the crows in Dumbo are racist doesn't matter to me personally and whether the goblins in harry potter are does, because I regularly see people say \"the goblins in harry potter are antisemitic, therefore you're a bad person if you like harry potter\" by people who are very obviously just always thought Harry Potter was bad for apolitical reasons and found it frustrating when it was super popular so targeting people for liking it now that it's fallen from grace because its creator did shitty things is cathartic for them. I obviously can't prove all of their motivations, so I'm focusing on the part that is provable.", ">\n\nWell I think the goblins are at best problematic, Rowling is kinda a piece of shit and the books/movies themselves are fine there is noting wrong with liking them (I guess unless you like them because they support your views on Jewish conspiracies and/or you what to support Rowling weird anti trans campaign)\nJust because you like something that does not mean others have to be wrong about why they dislike it.", ">\n\nRowling is a piece of shit, and \"problematic\" is a perfectly accurate descriptor for them, because all it means is \"someone has a problem with this\", which applies to basically anything.", ">\n\nI grew up in Israel. While I'm not much of a Harry Potter fan, I have read some of the books and am familiar with the goblins.\nA young Israeli reading the books in Hebrew would not likely have viewed the goblins as being caricatures of Jewish people, and if they did recognize the connection they may have assumed that they were imagining something that isn't there.\nIsraelis, by and large, are not exposed to antisemitism and antisemitic tropes in their daily lives. These are things that they learn about in school, but they seem largely academic and silly because they don't correspond to anything they perceive in the real world around them. They mainly interact with other Israelis, and while they may have negative stereotypes about themselves, none of these stereotypes correspond to any of the well known antisemitic caricatures.\nIt's similar to an American reading a book about a country of bloodthirsty, torture loving, brutes who live in abject squalor (such as Mordor in Lord of the Rings) and not recognizing the North Korean propoganda view of the US.\nI'd also point out that the works of known and unrepentant antisemites like Roald Dahl enjoy popularity in Israel and don't raise any real objections.\nJewish people living elsewhere have different experiences of course.", ">\n\ni got no idea what yall on but it looks fun" ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it.", ">\n\nThat's a fair point and disproves the original argument, but I've already refined that argument into a better argument which you can see in my other posts.", ">\n\nThe goblins follow a lot of antisemitic stereotypes, even if it is accidental. Like, if I wrote a comic about a black person eating fried chicken, having an afro, talking loud at the movies, even if I was naive to the stereotypes that exist about black people, it would still be fair to call the comic I wrote racist.\nFurthermore, people who enjoy problematic media are not bad. Pretty much all media is problematic in some way. The problem is when people defend the problematic aspects of that media. Like, I'm a long time HP Lovecraft fan, he is a good writer, he has lots of very interesting stories and concepts that I enjoy reading. He also also undeniably racist, and his work definitely reflects that. I don't defend the racism, and I don't try to justify it as a product of his time. Would I still recommend people read his work? Absolutely. But I would probably warn people like \"hey his prose and narrative framing is enjoyable to read but it is straight up racist at times.\"", ">\n\nThe word \"racism\", like most words, has multiple definitions. Would someone who wrote a comic like that have racist intentions? Probably, but it's impossible to ever actually prove so without them admitting it because we can't read minds. Would it make some people, including black people, feel like it's racist? Almost certainly, but some people genuinely think all sorts of absurd things are racist, so that on its own doesn't mean much. But the definition I think that's most meaningful, when asking if a piece of media specifically is racist is \"does it inspire anyone to behave in a racist manner in real life?\" Maybe your hypothetical comic would, but I haven't seen any antisemites who cite JK Rowling as an inspiration for their beliefs (and I've seen plenty of transphobes who do), so since you can't prove a negative, that means it's not accurate to call the goblins antisemitic.", ">\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.", ">\n\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.\n\nThat would eliminate a lot of good work because racists are stupid.\nFamously, Republicans and Democrats both equally liked Stephen Colbert despite him explicitly making a caricature of the right.\nDemocrats thought he was making fun of the right.\nAnd Republicans thought he was making fun of the left's image of the right.\nBoth enjoyed his show.\nAnd Dave Chappelle quit his show because he heard a white guy laugh too loudly at one of his jokes. But that doesnt mean his show wasn't still incredible biting social commentary. It just means idiots can misinterpret art.", ">\n\n\nIt is my understanding of the concept of bigotry that if a book is \"overtly antisemitic\", and a Jewish person reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't realize it's antisemitic, they're really, really stupid.\n\nWhere is it contained in the concept of bigotry that either the bigotry must be immediately obvious? And why would it follow that because a piece of media has an offensive aspect that therefore people can't enjoy it at all even if it were immediately obvious?\nThe simple thing is that the goblins correlate very closely to a lot of historically racist/anti-Semitic ideas and attitudes that I can't believe JK Rowling would be unaware of. That's why people criticise it.", ">\n\nWhy single out goblins and hp then? Give me a sentient non human fantasy race and il give you the bigoted caricature of real life culture it resembles.", ">\n\nGoblins in Harry Potter are singled out because that's what OP made a thread about. Harry Potter is definitely not the only example of problematic depictions of goblins, and I'm sure there are other problematic creatures in fantasy. If there's some other depiction that you think is either problematic, or unfairly called problematic, make your own CMV post! But don't ask \"why single out goblins and hp\" in a comment on a thread titled \"the goblins in the Harry Potter books aren't antisemitic\" :)", ">\n\nWhat meant is that they're singled out by the controversy that inspired this cmv, not necessarily the people replying to this cmv. \nAnd yeah the big one is probably orcs. They map on to racist caricatures of plack people just as well as goblins of hp map onto caricatures of Jewish people. And they are far more ubiquitous in fantasy, yet I don't see anyone being outraged over it.", ">\n\nErm, I'm not Jewish, and I definitely remember reading the books when they came out and cringing at the goblins hitting so many \"awful Jewish stereotype\" notes....\nI'm assuming that Jewish people noticed that too. Do you really think no one reads things that have negative stereotypes of their group in them? I'm a woman and I've read books where I've flat out yelled at the book for some idiotic female stereotyping. Some of them even books that I otherwise really enjoyed.", ">\n\n\nJust like JKR named an Asian student Cho Chang, she can have blindspots in terms of her use of fantasy tropes that lean into certain forms of bigotry.\n\nI always find the critiques of the names so narrowly focused and don't look at the rest of the characters.\nLike is Cho Chang a very basic and reductive name? Sure.\nBut so is Seamus Finnegan for an irish kid. \nand same for basically anyone in the story that wasn't straight english. It was basically to let the audience know where these characters origins were from.\nAnd lets look at some other basic names.\nDraco Malfoy means bad trusting snake.\nAnd Severus Snape once again sounds like an evil snake man.\nAnd Remus Lupin means wolf moon.\nHarry Potter was a children's series with very basic names that give you an immediate sense of who these characters are. Reading too deep into them just seems asinine", ">\n\nI don't understand this argument. It seems to be saying a work of art can't be racist if it's translated into the language of the supposed target of racism. It's like saying an anime can't have racist depictions of black people in it because the anime was translated into English and a lot of black people like the show. I sort of see where this is coming from, but I don't see how this works.", ">\n\nI think the most neutral way of putting it would be to say the goblins in hp are coded as antisemitic Jewish caricatures.\nNow is that itself antisemitic? I guess that's debatable. They aren't explisetly Jewish but in that case are the crows from Dumbo not racist just because they aren't black humans?", ">\n\nI would guess that if you asked the people who made that movie when they made in the 1940s, they would say \"yeah, the crows are supposed to be black people\", and if you asked racists in the audience, they would say \"yeah, the crows are supposed to be black people\", but I can't ask them because they're all dead, but whether or not the crows in Dumbo are racist doesn't matter to me personally and whether the goblins in harry potter are does, because I regularly see people say \"the goblins in harry potter are antisemitic, therefore you're a bad person if you like harry potter\" by people who are very obviously just always thought Harry Potter was bad for apolitical reasons and found it frustrating when it was super popular so targeting people for liking it now that it's fallen from grace because its creator did shitty things is cathartic for them. I obviously can't prove all of their motivations, so I'm focusing on the part that is provable.", ">\n\nWell I think the goblins are at best problematic, Rowling is kinda a piece of shit and the books/movies themselves are fine there is noting wrong with liking them (I guess unless you like them because they support your views on Jewish conspiracies and/or you what to support Rowling weird anti trans campaign)\nJust because you like something that does not mean others have to be wrong about why they dislike it.", ">\n\nRowling is a piece of shit, and \"problematic\" is a perfectly accurate descriptor for them, because all it means is \"someone has a problem with this\", which applies to basically anything.", ">\n\nI grew up in Israel. While I'm not much of a Harry Potter fan, I have read some of the books and am familiar with the goblins.\nA young Israeli reading the books in Hebrew would not likely have viewed the goblins as being caricatures of Jewish people, and if they did recognize the connection they may have assumed that they were imagining something that isn't there.\nIsraelis, by and large, are not exposed to antisemitism and antisemitic tropes in their daily lives. These are things that they learn about in school, but they seem largely academic and silly because they don't correspond to anything they perceive in the real world around them. They mainly interact with other Israelis, and while they may have negative stereotypes about themselves, none of these stereotypes correspond to any of the well known antisemitic caricatures.\nIt's similar to an American reading a book about a country of bloodthirsty, torture loving, brutes who live in abject squalor (such as Mordor in Lord of the Rings) and not recognizing the North Korean propoganda view of the US.\nI'd also point out that the works of known and unrepentant antisemites like Roald Dahl enjoy popularity in Israel and don't raise any real objections.\nJewish people living elsewhere have different experiences of course.", ">\n\ni got no idea what yall on but it looks fun", ">\n\nThey correspond to a suspiciously large amount of antisemitic stereotypes for it to have been innocent.\nBeing translated into Hebrew doesn't mean anything, there are Hebrew translations of all sorts of antisemitic stuff for the sole reason that Hebrew speakers have a right to read and understand it\nThe fact of the matter is that the Goblins didn't have to even exist, Rowling chose to make a special race to handle banking. Their omission doesn't change the plot much at all. There's no reason the wizards can't handle their own banking." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it.", ">\n\nThat's a fair point and disproves the original argument, but I've already refined that argument into a better argument which you can see in my other posts.", ">\n\nThe goblins follow a lot of antisemitic stereotypes, even if it is accidental. Like, if I wrote a comic about a black person eating fried chicken, having an afro, talking loud at the movies, even if I was naive to the stereotypes that exist about black people, it would still be fair to call the comic I wrote racist.\nFurthermore, people who enjoy problematic media are not bad. Pretty much all media is problematic in some way. The problem is when people defend the problematic aspects of that media. Like, I'm a long time HP Lovecraft fan, he is a good writer, he has lots of very interesting stories and concepts that I enjoy reading. He also also undeniably racist, and his work definitely reflects that. I don't defend the racism, and I don't try to justify it as a product of his time. Would I still recommend people read his work? Absolutely. But I would probably warn people like \"hey his prose and narrative framing is enjoyable to read but it is straight up racist at times.\"", ">\n\nThe word \"racism\", like most words, has multiple definitions. Would someone who wrote a comic like that have racist intentions? Probably, but it's impossible to ever actually prove so without them admitting it because we can't read minds. Would it make some people, including black people, feel like it's racist? Almost certainly, but some people genuinely think all sorts of absurd things are racist, so that on its own doesn't mean much. But the definition I think that's most meaningful, when asking if a piece of media specifically is racist is \"does it inspire anyone to behave in a racist manner in real life?\" Maybe your hypothetical comic would, but I haven't seen any antisemites who cite JK Rowling as an inspiration for their beliefs (and I've seen plenty of transphobes who do), so since you can't prove a negative, that means it's not accurate to call the goblins antisemitic.", ">\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.", ">\n\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.\n\nThat would eliminate a lot of good work because racists are stupid.\nFamously, Republicans and Democrats both equally liked Stephen Colbert despite him explicitly making a caricature of the right.\nDemocrats thought he was making fun of the right.\nAnd Republicans thought he was making fun of the left's image of the right.\nBoth enjoyed his show.\nAnd Dave Chappelle quit his show because he heard a white guy laugh too loudly at one of his jokes. But that doesnt mean his show wasn't still incredible biting social commentary. It just means idiots can misinterpret art.", ">\n\n\nIt is my understanding of the concept of bigotry that if a book is \"overtly antisemitic\", and a Jewish person reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't realize it's antisemitic, they're really, really stupid.\n\nWhere is it contained in the concept of bigotry that either the bigotry must be immediately obvious? And why would it follow that because a piece of media has an offensive aspect that therefore people can't enjoy it at all even if it were immediately obvious?\nThe simple thing is that the goblins correlate very closely to a lot of historically racist/anti-Semitic ideas and attitudes that I can't believe JK Rowling would be unaware of. That's why people criticise it.", ">\n\nWhy single out goblins and hp then? Give me a sentient non human fantasy race and il give you the bigoted caricature of real life culture it resembles.", ">\n\nGoblins in Harry Potter are singled out because that's what OP made a thread about. Harry Potter is definitely not the only example of problematic depictions of goblins, and I'm sure there are other problematic creatures in fantasy. If there's some other depiction that you think is either problematic, or unfairly called problematic, make your own CMV post! But don't ask \"why single out goblins and hp\" in a comment on a thread titled \"the goblins in the Harry Potter books aren't antisemitic\" :)", ">\n\nWhat meant is that they're singled out by the controversy that inspired this cmv, not necessarily the people replying to this cmv. \nAnd yeah the big one is probably orcs. They map on to racist caricatures of plack people just as well as goblins of hp map onto caricatures of Jewish people. And they are far more ubiquitous in fantasy, yet I don't see anyone being outraged over it.", ">\n\nErm, I'm not Jewish, and I definitely remember reading the books when they came out and cringing at the goblins hitting so many \"awful Jewish stereotype\" notes....\nI'm assuming that Jewish people noticed that too. Do you really think no one reads things that have negative stereotypes of their group in them? I'm a woman and I've read books where I've flat out yelled at the book for some idiotic female stereotyping. Some of them even books that I otherwise really enjoyed.", ">\n\n\nJust like JKR named an Asian student Cho Chang, she can have blindspots in terms of her use of fantasy tropes that lean into certain forms of bigotry.\n\nI always find the critiques of the names so narrowly focused and don't look at the rest of the characters.\nLike is Cho Chang a very basic and reductive name? Sure.\nBut so is Seamus Finnegan for an irish kid. \nand same for basically anyone in the story that wasn't straight english. It was basically to let the audience know where these characters origins were from.\nAnd lets look at some other basic names.\nDraco Malfoy means bad trusting snake.\nAnd Severus Snape once again sounds like an evil snake man.\nAnd Remus Lupin means wolf moon.\nHarry Potter was a children's series with very basic names that give you an immediate sense of who these characters are. Reading too deep into them just seems asinine", ">\n\nI don't understand this argument. It seems to be saying a work of art can't be racist if it's translated into the language of the supposed target of racism. It's like saying an anime can't have racist depictions of black people in it because the anime was translated into English and a lot of black people like the show. I sort of see where this is coming from, but I don't see how this works.", ">\n\nI think the most neutral way of putting it would be to say the goblins in hp are coded as antisemitic Jewish caricatures.\nNow is that itself antisemitic? I guess that's debatable. They aren't explisetly Jewish but in that case are the crows from Dumbo not racist just because they aren't black humans?", ">\n\nI would guess that if you asked the people who made that movie when they made in the 1940s, they would say \"yeah, the crows are supposed to be black people\", and if you asked racists in the audience, they would say \"yeah, the crows are supposed to be black people\", but I can't ask them because they're all dead, but whether or not the crows in Dumbo are racist doesn't matter to me personally and whether the goblins in harry potter are does, because I regularly see people say \"the goblins in harry potter are antisemitic, therefore you're a bad person if you like harry potter\" by people who are very obviously just always thought Harry Potter was bad for apolitical reasons and found it frustrating when it was super popular so targeting people for liking it now that it's fallen from grace because its creator did shitty things is cathartic for them. I obviously can't prove all of their motivations, so I'm focusing on the part that is provable.", ">\n\nWell I think the goblins are at best problematic, Rowling is kinda a piece of shit and the books/movies themselves are fine there is noting wrong with liking them (I guess unless you like them because they support your views on Jewish conspiracies and/or you what to support Rowling weird anti trans campaign)\nJust because you like something that does not mean others have to be wrong about why they dislike it.", ">\n\nRowling is a piece of shit, and \"problematic\" is a perfectly accurate descriptor for them, because all it means is \"someone has a problem with this\", which applies to basically anything.", ">\n\nI grew up in Israel. While I'm not much of a Harry Potter fan, I have read some of the books and am familiar with the goblins.\nA young Israeli reading the books in Hebrew would not likely have viewed the goblins as being caricatures of Jewish people, and if they did recognize the connection they may have assumed that they were imagining something that isn't there.\nIsraelis, by and large, are not exposed to antisemitism and antisemitic tropes in their daily lives. These are things that they learn about in school, but they seem largely academic and silly because they don't correspond to anything they perceive in the real world around them. They mainly interact with other Israelis, and while they may have negative stereotypes about themselves, none of these stereotypes correspond to any of the well known antisemitic caricatures.\nIt's similar to an American reading a book about a country of bloodthirsty, torture loving, brutes who live in abject squalor (such as Mordor in Lord of the Rings) and not recognizing the North Korean propoganda view of the US.\nI'd also point out that the works of known and unrepentant antisemites like Roald Dahl enjoy popularity in Israel and don't raise any real objections.\nJewish people living elsewhere have different experiences of course.", ">\n\ni got no idea what yall on but it looks fun", ">\n\nThey correspond to a suspiciously large amount of antisemitic stereotypes for it to have been innocent.\nBeing translated into Hebrew doesn't mean anything, there are Hebrew translations of all sorts of antisemitic stuff for the sole reason that Hebrew speakers have a right to read and understand it\nThe fact of the matter is that the Goblins didn't have to even exist, Rowling chose to make a special race to handle banking. Their omission doesn't change the plot much at all. There's no reason the wizards can't handle their own banking.", ">\n\n\nAll 7 Harry Potter books have been officially translated into Hebrew, and Philosopher's Stone has been translated into Yiddish, the first edition of which sold out in 48 hours. It is my understanding of the concept of bigotry that if a book is \"overtly antisemitic\", and a Jewish person reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't realize it's antisemitic, they're really, really stupid. \nI am not arguing in favor of the moral character of J.K. Rowling as a person\n\nSince we're not arguing whether Rowling is intentionally antisemitic, couldn't we still consider the goblins to have been unintentionally antisemitic? That would allow us to acknowledge the unfortunate strong similarities between classic anti-Jewish imagery and Rowling's goblins, while at the same time refrain from accusing her from wrongdoing in that respect." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it.", ">\n\nThat's a fair point and disproves the original argument, but I've already refined that argument into a better argument which you can see in my other posts.", ">\n\nThe goblins follow a lot of antisemitic stereotypes, even if it is accidental. Like, if I wrote a comic about a black person eating fried chicken, having an afro, talking loud at the movies, even if I was naive to the stereotypes that exist about black people, it would still be fair to call the comic I wrote racist.\nFurthermore, people who enjoy problematic media are not bad. Pretty much all media is problematic in some way. The problem is when people defend the problematic aspects of that media. Like, I'm a long time HP Lovecraft fan, he is a good writer, he has lots of very interesting stories and concepts that I enjoy reading. He also also undeniably racist, and his work definitely reflects that. I don't defend the racism, and I don't try to justify it as a product of his time. Would I still recommend people read his work? Absolutely. But I would probably warn people like \"hey his prose and narrative framing is enjoyable to read but it is straight up racist at times.\"", ">\n\nThe word \"racism\", like most words, has multiple definitions. Would someone who wrote a comic like that have racist intentions? Probably, but it's impossible to ever actually prove so without them admitting it because we can't read minds. Would it make some people, including black people, feel like it's racist? Almost certainly, but some people genuinely think all sorts of absurd things are racist, so that on its own doesn't mean much. But the definition I think that's most meaningful, when asking if a piece of media specifically is racist is \"does it inspire anyone to behave in a racist manner in real life?\" Maybe your hypothetical comic would, but I haven't seen any antisemites who cite JK Rowling as an inspiration for their beliefs (and I've seen plenty of transphobes who do), so since you can't prove a negative, that means it's not accurate to call the goblins antisemitic.", ">\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.", ">\n\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.\n\nThat would eliminate a lot of good work because racists are stupid.\nFamously, Republicans and Democrats both equally liked Stephen Colbert despite him explicitly making a caricature of the right.\nDemocrats thought he was making fun of the right.\nAnd Republicans thought he was making fun of the left's image of the right.\nBoth enjoyed his show.\nAnd Dave Chappelle quit his show because he heard a white guy laugh too loudly at one of his jokes. But that doesnt mean his show wasn't still incredible biting social commentary. It just means idiots can misinterpret art.", ">\n\n\nIt is my understanding of the concept of bigotry that if a book is \"overtly antisemitic\", and a Jewish person reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't realize it's antisemitic, they're really, really stupid.\n\nWhere is it contained in the concept of bigotry that either the bigotry must be immediately obvious? And why would it follow that because a piece of media has an offensive aspect that therefore people can't enjoy it at all even if it were immediately obvious?\nThe simple thing is that the goblins correlate very closely to a lot of historically racist/anti-Semitic ideas and attitudes that I can't believe JK Rowling would be unaware of. That's why people criticise it.", ">\n\nWhy single out goblins and hp then? Give me a sentient non human fantasy race and il give you the bigoted caricature of real life culture it resembles.", ">\n\nGoblins in Harry Potter are singled out because that's what OP made a thread about. Harry Potter is definitely not the only example of problematic depictions of goblins, and I'm sure there are other problematic creatures in fantasy. If there's some other depiction that you think is either problematic, or unfairly called problematic, make your own CMV post! But don't ask \"why single out goblins and hp\" in a comment on a thread titled \"the goblins in the Harry Potter books aren't antisemitic\" :)", ">\n\nWhat meant is that they're singled out by the controversy that inspired this cmv, not necessarily the people replying to this cmv. \nAnd yeah the big one is probably orcs. They map on to racist caricatures of plack people just as well as goblins of hp map onto caricatures of Jewish people. And they are far more ubiquitous in fantasy, yet I don't see anyone being outraged over it.", ">\n\nErm, I'm not Jewish, and I definitely remember reading the books when they came out and cringing at the goblins hitting so many \"awful Jewish stereotype\" notes....\nI'm assuming that Jewish people noticed that too. Do you really think no one reads things that have negative stereotypes of their group in them? I'm a woman and I've read books where I've flat out yelled at the book for some idiotic female stereotyping. Some of them even books that I otherwise really enjoyed.", ">\n\n\nJust like JKR named an Asian student Cho Chang, she can have blindspots in terms of her use of fantasy tropes that lean into certain forms of bigotry.\n\nI always find the critiques of the names so narrowly focused and don't look at the rest of the characters.\nLike is Cho Chang a very basic and reductive name? Sure.\nBut so is Seamus Finnegan for an irish kid. \nand same for basically anyone in the story that wasn't straight english. It was basically to let the audience know where these characters origins were from.\nAnd lets look at some other basic names.\nDraco Malfoy means bad trusting snake.\nAnd Severus Snape once again sounds like an evil snake man.\nAnd Remus Lupin means wolf moon.\nHarry Potter was a children's series with very basic names that give you an immediate sense of who these characters are. Reading too deep into them just seems asinine", ">\n\nI don't understand this argument. It seems to be saying a work of art can't be racist if it's translated into the language of the supposed target of racism. It's like saying an anime can't have racist depictions of black people in it because the anime was translated into English and a lot of black people like the show. I sort of see where this is coming from, but I don't see how this works.", ">\n\nI think the most neutral way of putting it would be to say the goblins in hp are coded as antisemitic Jewish caricatures.\nNow is that itself antisemitic? I guess that's debatable. They aren't explisetly Jewish but in that case are the crows from Dumbo not racist just because they aren't black humans?", ">\n\nI would guess that if you asked the people who made that movie when they made in the 1940s, they would say \"yeah, the crows are supposed to be black people\", and if you asked racists in the audience, they would say \"yeah, the crows are supposed to be black people\", but I can't ask them because they're all dead, but whether or not the crows in Dumbo are racist doesn't matter to me personally and whether the goblins in harry potter are does, because I regularly see people say \"the goblins in harry potter are antisemitic, therefore you're a bad person if you like harry potter\" by people who are very obviously just always thought Harry Potter was bad for apolitical reasons and found it frustrating when it was super popular so targeting people for liking it now that it's fallen from grace because its creator did shitty things is cathartic for them. I obviously can't prove all of their motivations, so I'm focusing on the part that is provable.", ">\n\nWell I think the goblins are at best problematic, Rowling is kinda a piece of shit and the books/movies themselves are fine there is noting wrong with liking them (I guess unless you like them because they support your views on Jewish conspiracies and/or you what to support Rowling weird anti trans campaign)\nJust because you like something that does not mean others have to be wrong about why they dislike it.", ">\n\nRowling is a piece of shit, and \"problematic\" is a perfectly accurate descriptor for them, because all it means is \"someone has a problem with this\", which applies to basically anything.", ">\n\nI grew up in Israel. While I'm not much of a Harry Potter fan, I have read some of the books and am familiar with the goblins.\nA young Israeli reading the books in Hebrew would not likely have viewed the goblins as being caricatures of Jewish people, and if they did recognize the connection they may have assumed that they were imagining something that isn't there.\nIsraelis, by and large, are not exposed to antisemitism and antisemitic tropes in their daily lives. These are things that they learn about in school, but they seem largely academic and silly because they don't correspond to anything they perceive in the real world around them. They mainly interact with other Israelis, and while they may have negative stereotypes about themselves, none of these stereotypes correspond to any of the well known antisemitic caricatures.\nIt's similar to an American reading a book about a country of bloodthirsty, torture loving, brutes who live in abject squalor (such as Mordor in Lord of the Rings) and not recognizing the North Korean propoganda view of the US.\nI'd also point out that the works of known and unrepentant antisemites like Roald Dahl enjoy popularity in Israel and don't raise any real objections.\nJewish people living elsewhere have different experiences of course.", ">\n\ni got no idea what yall on but it looks fun", ">\n\nThey correspond to a suspiciously large amount of antisemitic stereotypes for it to have been innocent.\nBeing translated into Hebrew doesn't mean anything, there are Hebrew translations of all sorts of antisemitic stuff for the sole reason that Hebrew speakers have a right to read and understand it\nThe fact of the matter is that the Goblins didn't have to even exist, Rowling chose to make a special race to handle banking. Their omission doesn't change the plot much at all. There's no reason the wizards can't handle their own banking.", ">\n\n\nAll 7 Harry Potter books have been officially translated into Hebrew, and Philosopher's Stone has been translated into Yiddish, the first edition of which sold out in 48 hours. It is my understanding of the concept of bigotry that if a book is \"overtly antisemitic\", and a Jewish person reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't realize it's antisemitic, they're really, really stupid. \nI am not arguing in favor of the moral character of J.K. Rowling as a person\n\nSince we're not arguing whether Rowling is intentionally antisemitic, couldn't we still consider the goblins to have been unintentionally antisemitic? That would allow us to acknowledge the unfortunate strong similarities between classic anti-Jewish imagery and Rowling's goblins, while at the same time refrain from accusing her from wrongdoing in that respect.", ">\n\nIt looks like all the things you describe by definition only apply to intentional antisemitism. I'm saying that it could be seen as unintentional." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it.", ">\n\nThat's a fair point and disproves the original argument, but I've already refined that argument into a better argument which you can see in my other posts.", ">\n\nThe goblins follow a lot of antisemitic stereotypes, even if it is accidental. Like, if I wrote a comic about a black person eating fried chicken, having an afro, talking loud at the movies, even if I was naive to the stereotypes that exist about black people, it would still be fair to call the comic I wrote racist.\nFurthermore, people who enjoy problematic media are not bad. Pretty much all media is problematic in some way. The problem is when people defend the problematic aspects of that media. Like, I'm a long time HP Lovecraft fan, he is a good writer, he has lots of very interesting stories and concepts that I enjoy reading. He also also undeniably racist, and his work definitely reflects that. I don't defend the racism, and I don't try to justify it as a product of his time. Would I still recommend people read his work? Absolutely. But I would probably warn people like \"hey his prose and narrative framing is enjoyable to read but it is straight up racist at times.\"", ">\n\nThe word \"racism\", like most words, has multiple definitions. Would someone who wrote a comic like that have racist intentions? Probably, but it's impossible to ever actually prove so without them admitting it because we can't read minds. Would it make some people, including black people, feel like it's racist? Almost certainly, but some people genuinely think all sorts of absurd things are racist, so that on its own doesn't mean much. But the definition I think that's most meaningful, when asking if a piece of media specifically is racist is \"does it inspire anyone to behave in a racist manner in real life?\" Maybe your hypothetical comic would, but I haven't seen any antisemites who cite JK Rowling as an inspiration for their beliefs (and I've seen plenty of transphobes who do), so since you can't prove a negative, that means it's not accurate to call the goblins antisemitic.", ">\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.", ">\n\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.\n\nThat would eliminate a lot of good work because racists are stupid.\nFamously, Republicans and Democrats both equally liked Stephen Colbert despite him explicitly making a caricature of the right.\nDemocrats thought he was making fun of the right.\nAnd Republicans thought he was making fun of the left's image of the right.\nBoth enjoyed his show.\nAnd Dave Chappelle quit his show because he heard a white guy laugh too loudly at one of his jokes. But that doesnt mean his show wasn't still incredible biting social commentary. It just means idiots can misinterpret art.", ">\n\n\nIt is my understanding of the concept of bigotry that if a book is \"overtly antisemitic\", and a Jewish person reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't realize it's antisemitic, they're really, really stupid.\n\nWhere is it contained in the concept of bigotry that either the bigotry must be immediately obvious? And why would it follow that because a piece of media has an offensive aspect that therefore people can't enjoy it at all even if it were immediately obvious?\nThe simple thing is that the goblins correlate very closely to a lot of historically racist/anti-Semitic ideas and attitudes that I can't believe JK Rowling would be unaware of. That's why people criticise it.", ">\n\nWhy single out goblins and hp then? Give me a sentient non human fantasy race and il give you the bigoted caricature of real life culture it resembles.", ">\n\nGoblins in Harry Potter are singled out because that's what OP made a thread about. Harry Potter is definitely not the only example of problematic depictions of goblins, and I'm sure there are other problematic creatures in fantasy. If there's some other depiction that you think is either problematic, or unfairly called problematic, make your own CMV post! But don't ask \"why single out goblins and hp\" in a comment on a thread titled \"the goblins in the Harry Potter books aren't antisemitic\" :)", ">\n\nWhat meant is that they're singled out by the controversy that inspired this cmv, not necessarily the people replying to this cmv. \nAnd yeah the big one is probably orcs. They map on to racist caricatures of plack people just as well as goblins of hp map onto caricatures of Jewish people. And they are far more ubiquitous in fantasy, yet I don't see anyone being outraged over it.", ">\n\nErm, I'm not Jewish, and I definitely remember reading the books when they came out and cringing at the goblins hitting so many \"awful Jewish stereotype\" notes....\nI'm assuming that Jewish people noticed that too. Do you really think no one reads things that have negative stereotypes of their group in them? I'm a woman and I've read books where I've flat out yelled at the book for some idiotic female stereotyping. Some of them even books that I otherwise really enjoyed.", ">\n\n\nJust like JKR named an Asian student Cho Chang, she can have blindspots in terms of her use of fantasy tropes that lean into certain forms of bigotry.\n\nI always find the critiques of the names so narrowly focused and don't look at the rest of the characters.\nLike is Cho Chang a very basic and reductive name? Sure.\nBut so is Seamus Finnegan for an irish kid. \nand same for basically anyone in the story that wasn't straight english. It was basically to let the audience know where these characters origins were from.\nAnd lets look at some other basic names.\nDraco Malfoy means bad trusting snake.\nAnd Severus Snape once again sounds like an evil snake man.\nAnd Remus Lupin means wolf moon.\nHarry Potter was a children's series with very basic names that give you an immediate sense of who these characters are. Reading too deep into them just seems asinine", ">\n\nI don't understand this argument. It seems to be saying a work of art can't be racist if it's translated into the language of the supposed target of racism. It's like saying an anime can't have racist depictions of black people in it because the anime was translated into English and a lot of black people like the show. I sort of see where this is coming from, but I don't see how this works.", ">\n\nI think the most neutral way of putting it would be to say the goblins in hp are coded as antisemitic Jewish caricatures.\nNow is that itself antisemitic? I guess that's debatable. They aren't explisetly Jewish but in that case are the crows from Dumbo not racist just because they aren't black humans?", ">\n\nI would guess that if you asked the people who made that movie when they made in the 1940s, they would say \"yeah, the crows are supposed to be black people\", and if you asked racists in the audience, they would say \"yeah, the crows are supposed to be black people\", but I can't ask them because they're all dead, but whether or not the crows in Dumbo are racist doesn't matter to me personally and whether the goblins in harry potter are does, because I regularly see people say \"the goblins in harry potter are antisemitic, therefore you're a bad person if you like harry potter\" by people who are very obviously just always thought Harry Potter was bad for apolitical reasons and found it frustrating when it was super popular so targeting people for liking it now that it's fallen from grace because its creator did shitty things is cathartic for them. I obviously can't prove all of their motivations, so I'm focusing on the part that is provable.", ">\n\nWell I think the goblins are at best problematic, Rowling is kinda a piece of shit and the books/movies themselves are fine there is noting wrong with liking them (I guess unless you like them because they support your views on Jewish conspiracies and/or you what to support Rowling weird anti trans campaign)\nJust because you like something that does not mean others have to be wrong about why they dislike it.", ">\n\nRowling is a piece of shit, and \"problematic\" is a perfectly accurate descriptor for them, because all it means is \"someone has a problem with this\", which applies to basically anything.", ">\n\nI grew up in Israel. While I'm not much of a Harry Potter fan, I have read some of the books and am familiar with the goblins.\nA young Israeli reading the books in Hebrew would not likely have viewed the goblins as being caricatures of Jewish people, and if they did recognize the connection they may have assumed that they were imagining something that isn't there.\nIsraelis, by and large, are not exposed to antisemitism and antisemitic tropes in their daily lives. These are things that they learn about in school, but they seem largely academic and silly because they don't correspond to anything they perceive in the real world around them. They mainly interact with other Israelis, and while they may have negative stereotypes about themselves, none of these stereotypes correspond to any of the well known antisemitic caricatures.\nIt's similar to an American reading a book about a country of bloodthirsty, torture loving, brutes who live in abject squalor (such as Mordor in Lord of the Rings) and not recognizing the North Korean propoganda view of the US.\nI'd also point out that the works of known and unrepentant antisemites like Roald Dahl enjoy popularity in Israel and don't raise any real objections.\nJewish people living elsewhere have different experiences of course.", ">\n\ni got no idea what yall on but it looks fun", ">\n\nThey correspond to a suspiciously large amount of antisemitic stereotypes for it to have been innocent.\nBeing translated into Hebrew doesn't mean anything, there are Hebrew translations of all sorts of antisemitic stuff for the sole reason that Hebrew speakers have a right to read and understand it\nThe fact of the matter is that the Goblins didn't have to even exist, Rowling chose to make a special race to handle banking. Their omission doesn't change the plot much at all. There's no reason the wizards can't handle their own banking.", ">\n\n\nAll 7 Harry Potter books have been officially translated into Hebrew, and Philosopher's Stone has been translated into Yiddish, the first edition of which sold out in 48 hours. It is my understanding of the concept of bigotry that if a book is \"overtly antisemitic\", and a Jewish person reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't realize it's antisemitic, they're really, really stupid. \nI am not arguing in favor of the moral character of J.K. Rowling as a person\n\nSince we're not arguing whether Rowling is intentionally antisemitic, couldn't we still consider the goblins to have been unintentionally antisemitic? That would allow us to acknowledge the unfortunate strong similarities between classic anti-Jewish imagery and Rowling's goblins, while at the same time refrain from accusing her from wrongdoing in that respect.", ">\n\nIt looks like all the things you describe by definition only apply to intentional antisemitism. I'm saying that it could be seen as unintentional.", ">\n\nEither you have to prove intention, or you have to prove harm. You've already admitted you can't prove intention, and no antisemites have cited harry potter as an inspiration for their beliefs, so you can't prove harm. All you can prove is that it looks like other things that are both intentional and harmful, but if someone swings at you with a wooden sword, it's not OK to shoot them dead because it looked like a real sword." ]

[ "I mean, no I don't think the goblins were intended to disparage Jewish people nor that JK Rowling is personally antisemitic and deliberately sought to write characters that played into a myriad of Jewish stereotypes.\nHowever, that doesn't change the fact that the goblins in Harry Potter absolutely do play into tons of old anti-semitic stereotypes about Jewish people. They are hunched, ugly, larged-nosed secretive and insular people who basically control the finances of the entire wizarding world. They have strange cultural practices that are viewed with suspicion by everyone else. They literally hoard gold. And while they aren't portrayed as explicitly evil or anything, they also are definitely not portrayed as the good guys.\nSo while the goblins are overtly and intentionally anti-semitic, they are at best a clumsy amalgamation of stereotypes that would have probably been avoided by a more thoughtful and considerate author than Rowling. As to whether having them in the books actually does harm, I have no idea, but I don't think it's good.", ">\n\nSounds like the real antisemites are the people who think that just because goblins run the banking system in HP, then they must be equivalent to Jews.", ">\n\nOnly if you think we can't point out similarities to preexisting stereotypes without endorsing those stereotypes.", ">\n\nIt's an endorsement because you're repeating it as if it's some sort of fact.\nI wonder if you've even read the books, because there's nothing whatsoever in there that links goblins to Jewish people.", ">\n\nI have read the books and seen the movies. The goblins aren't Jewish, I am aware of that. But if you don't think hooked-nosed, insular, secretive greedy moneylenders don't have parallels to anti-semitic stereotypes, then I don't really know what to tell you.", ">\n\nAnd where do their long fingers and long feet, dwarfish height, expert metalsmithing, and the concept of goblin ownership fit into this theory of yours? \nYou're painting a caricature of the goblins anyway, their portrayal in the books is much more interesting than your summary.", ">\n\nI didn't realize something had to be literally one-to-one perfectly identical to known racist stereotypes before I was allowed to point it out?\nAgain, as I alluded to in my top level comment, I think it was just Rowling being lazy and falling into tropes about goblins and moneylenders. Her failure to catch the similarities to stereotypes of Jewish people is worthy of criticism, but doesn't mean the books are bad nor is it even close to the biggest criticism of Rowling or her work that can be made.", ">\n\nOk, so, Jew here, to get that out of the way.\nLots of Jews, because we tend culturally to value the arts, have copies of Shakespeare in their homes.\nThat does not make the portrait of Shylock not anti-Semitic (regardless of the authorial intent, I recognize that there is an argument that the Bard was critiquing the anti-Semitism of his time, but times change).\nThat the Merchant of Venice has been translated to Hebrew or that it has been performed in Israel to sell out crowds doesn't change the fact that Shylock is a highly problematic character.\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives.\nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\nJust because something is obviously anti-Semitic doesn't mean it isn't often overlooked if that anti-Semitism is a relatively minor instance of day-to-day bigotry, or is itself a \"baked-in\" part of some genre.", ">\n\n\nHere's the thing people don't get about minorities: we get that bigotry against us is kind of culturally normative. While we tend to call out problematic instances of bigotry, we basically tolerate day-to-day offenses our entire lives. \nIf we limited ourselves to entertainment that presented no issues of bigotry or appropriation, our choices would be pretty damn limited.\n\nJust underlining this. I think this is the key point that OP doesn't understand", ">\n\nWhy are you treating Harry Potter as some kinda black box? Like, you can't look at the text directly, but rather have to send Jews through the text and see what happens on the other side. If the goblins have a bunch of antisemitic tropes, then that's true whether or not you've heard anything from Israelis. And the same applies from the opposite direction if it's not antisemitic. The text is the text.", ">\n\nIf that's true, is it possible for something to bigoted even if no one of the group it's supposed to be bigoted against thinks so?", ">\n\nIt'd be rather unlikely, but it's not like you're polling all Jews. You're just doing this weird third hand thing where Jewish attitudes are a proxy for the text, and your vague vibes about Israeli opinion are a proxy for Jewish attitudes. And the text is right there, with the criticism sitting next to it, some of which is invariably coming from Jews, and all these bonus steps between us and that reality seem to just be mystifying what would otherwise be a rather straightforward process.", ">\n\nSome Jews have said it is antisemitic, yes. Some Jews say criticism of the government policies of Israel is antisemitic. Some black people say the notion that they aren't the real descendants of the ancient Israelites is racist. The world is a big place, and a lot of people are dumb, so you can find people of all backgrounds and demographics who believe all sorts of wildly untrue things. But if \"anyone of the relevant demographic says is bigoted is\" isn't a valid definition of bigotry, what is? Well, let's try a few and see if Harry Potter fits any of them. Firstly, does it directly harm people for being in a certain group, like a lynch mob or a concentration camp? Obviously, printed Harry Potter books aren't coming alive, flying into the houses of Jewish people, and exploding, so no. Does it directly advocate for acts that fall into the previous definition, like Mein Kampf or Birth of a Nation? The Goblins aren't literally Jews in the book, they're a separate species from humans, so no. Well then, does it encourage people to commit acts that fall into the first two definitions, even if not by overt advocacy? Well, you can say that it might in theory, but you can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, so can we actually find any anti-semites who say that Harry Potter made them antisemitic? I haven't, and I've certainly seen people who say that JK Rowling's post-HP book statements about trans people made them transphobic. So then, the only criterion remaining is \"do some people of the affected group somewhere consider it bigoted?\", which as previously established is a bad definition because it includes things that are patently absurd. Do you have another criteria in mind for determining if something is racist?", ">\n\nThe, \"Some people in the group think it's bigoted,\" thing was your criteria. I'm the one that thinks you should just check the text. And, along those lines, your argument for the second point, that goblins are not literally Jews, seems pretty bad. Like, no, they're not literally Jews. They just embody a lot.of antisemitic tropes. \nYour evaluation of the claim of bigotry seems super limited. You don't have to be performing or encouraging a literal genocide to be bigoted. It's sufficient to, say, stereotype a group of people. Does such a thing necessarily encourage violence? No. It expresses negative attitudes anyway. And the goblins, from what I've seen, play into some antisemitic tropes.", ">\n\nWhen you accuse someone of wrongdoing, you have to either prove intent, or prove harm. JK Rowling hasn't come out and said \"the goblins are supposed to be Jews\" so you can't prove intent, and no antisemites have said \"Harry Potter is what made me realize that the Jews run the world and need to be dealt with\", so you can't prove harm.", ">\n\nNo, neither of those are a particularly good way of evidencing bigotry in a text. Intent is largely unknowable. As you say, the closest we could plausibly come is her just telling us her intent, and even then it wouldn't fully illuminate the text. Death of the author is a rather important thing. Impact too, harm, is largely unknowable. I have no idea what impact the books had on antisemitism. Neither do you. Moreover, it's rather irrelevant. Would Mein Kampf cease to be antisemitic, or even be less so, if the book had languished in obscurity? Or been popular but not persuasive? As to intent, what if Hitler had told us his intent was not any animus towards Jews? Would these pieces of information combine to make the work not antisemitic?\nYou keep trying to work with proxies. Things outside the text that might tell us the answer to these questions. But the answers are within the text. Any claim that the book is antisemitic should begin and end within the books. External texts can be pertinent in that they are a handy reference guide for how antisemitism functions, but even there, you are comparing those reference points to the text, Harry Potter. If you don't think the books are antisemitic, tell me what about the arguments that it is, arguments located within the text, are unpersuasive.", ">\n\n.. An entire nation speaks Hebrew, that nation has lots of racist media and culture including antisemitic stuff, just like any nation in the world. \nI live in the US and I have watched plenty of japanese anime with anti-American stereotype characters in it that was translated into English. Lots of American entertainment features anti-American stereotype characters.\nYour idea that a country will never allow anything that is racist or against people like themselves to exist, or that no one will try to translate things in to such a language, is just wrong on it's face. It provides no evidence for your view.", ">\n\nWe take translated anime with anti-American stereotypes a lot less seriously because no one has ever orchestrated a genocide against white Americans. The same is not true of Jews.", ">\n\nDoes this not all boil down to individuals? Like any random American could be offended by anti-American stereotypes, and any random Jewish person may not be offended by anti-Jewish stereotypes. But neither of those opinions have any influence over whether the source material actually follows said stereotypes, just whether an individual finds them offensive.\nIn the case of JK Rowling's goblins, objectively speaking they hit every Jewish stereotype on the head to the point where it's difficult to make a more blatant example. Whether she intended it is impossible to know unless she admits it, and whether it's antisemitic is going to have some degree of subjectivity.", ">\n\nYet there are long established stereotypes that we've all as a whole internalized. Stereotypes about men, women, old people, all kinds of different religious and ethnic groups. Stereotypes that are often recognizable... such as the stereotype/caricature of the greedy jew.\nIf, and only if... since ive neither seen nor read harry potter... if these goblins encapsulate certain broadly recognizable jewish syereotypes... well, that is clear evidence to suggest at least some level of unconcious bias in creating the goblins. Perhaps a bias to which jk rowling is entrely blind", ">\n\nI don't think that just because a book sells well in Hebrew, it doesn't have anti-Semitic depictions. First of all, these books are meant for children. Children aren't particularly aware of tropes and stereotypes, and so won't make the connection or notice problem depictions. I know I didn't when I read the books as a kid. And because adults are not the target audience, they're less likely to even see the depictions. Secondly, Harry Potter was a global phenomenon. Popularity can often outstrip racist concerns due to people wanting to be part of the exciting thing. And in America, I feel confident a lot of Hebrew copies were for kids who also speak English, and got on the hype train from their English-speaking friends.\nLastly, people can have internal racist views that aren't as explicitly obvious, even when it's about their own race. In the US, dating sites find that non-white people often prefer dating white people over their own race. Many discriminated people have portrayed racist depictions in media like Uncle Toms, and there's literally a movie genre called blacksploitation.", ">\n\nIf you're in a reddit debate, and a bunch of people are replying to you with arguments that your response to would be something you've already posted elsewhere, is it normal to reply linking all of them to that post? I'm not sure on the ettiquite.", ">\n\nYou don't have to reply to every post.", ">\n\n\nTherefore, it follows that given various obvious facts about how the world works, any book that can be commercially published in Hebrew and Yiddish (and isn't a work of historical significance, where you're reading it to learn about how bad the author was, like Mein Kampf) can't be antisemitic. \n\nI don't think this follows at all! Antisemitism was the norm for much of the history of the written word. Many works throughout history have included antisemitic portrayals and still been translated into Hebrew- The Canterbury Tales, The Merchant of Venice, Oliver Twist just to name a few off the top of my head. \n\"There would never be a Hebrew translation of an antisemitic book\" is far from obvious and requires a lot more support to be accepted as a premise than just stating it.", ">\n\nThat's a fair point and disproves the original argument, but I've already refined that argument into a better argument which you can see in my other posts.", ">\n\nThe goblins follow a lot of antisemitic stereotypes, even if it is accidental. Like, if I wrote a comic about a black person eating fried chicken, having an afro, talking loud at the movies, even if I was naive to the stereotypes that exist about black people, it would still be fair to call the comic I wrote racist.\nFurthermore, people who enjoy problematic media are not bad. Pretty much all media is problematic in some way. The problem is when people defend the problematic aspects of that media. Like, I'm a long time HP Lovecraft fan, he is a good writer, he has lots of very interesting stories and concepts that I enjoy reading. He also also undeniably racist, and his work definitely reflects that. I don't defend the racism, and I don't try to justify it as a product of his time. Would I still recommend people read his work? Absolutely. But I would probably warn people like \"hey his prose and narrative framing is enjoyable to read but it is straight up racist at times.\"", ">\n\nThe word \"racism\", like most words, has multiple definitions. Would someone who wrote a comic like that have racist intentions? Probably, but it's impossible to ever actually prove so without them admitting it because we can't read minds. Would it make some people, including black people, feel like it's racist? Almost certainly, but some people genuinely think all sorts of absurd things are racist, so that on its own doesn't mean much. But the definition I think that's most meaningful, when asking if a piece of media specifically is racist is \"does it inspire anyone to behave in a racist manner in real life?\" Maybe your hypothetical comic would, but I haven't seen any antisemites who cite JK Rowling as an inspiration for their beliefs (and I've seen plenty of transphobes who do), so since you can't prove a negative, that means it's not accurate to call the goblins antisemitic.", ">\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.", ">\n\n\nI think a better metric than \"does this make people racist\" is \"does the affirm the already held beliefs of existing racists\" in my example, the writer can be naive as to the racial connotations and still write something that resonates with racists, unintentionally.\n\nThat would eliminate a lot of good work because racists are stupid.\nFamously, Republicans and Democrats both equally liked Stephen Colbert despite him explicitly making a caricature of the right.\nDemocrats thought he was making fun of the right.\nAnd Republicans thought he was making fun of the left's image of the right.\nBoth enjoyed his show.\nAnd Dave Chappelle quit his show because he heard a white guy laugh too loudly at one of his jokes. But that doesnt mean his show wasn't still incredible biting social commentary. It just means idiots can misinterpret art.", ">\n\n\nIt is my understanding of the concept of bigotry that if a book is \"overtly antisemitic\", and a Jewish person reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't realize it's antisemitic, they're really, really stupid.\n\nWhere is it contained in the concept of bigotry that either the bigotry must be immediately obvious? And why would it follow that because a piece of media has an offensive aspect that therefore people can't enjoy it at all even if it were immediately obvious?\nThe simple thing is that the goblins correlate very closely to a lot of historically racist/anti-Semitic ideas and attitudes that I can't believe JK Rowling would be unaware of. That's why people criticise it.", ">\n\nWhy single out goblins and hp then? Give me a sentient non human fantasy race and il give you the bigoted caricature of real life culture it resembles.", ">\n\nGoblins in Harry Potter are singled out because that's what OP made a thread about. Harry Potter is definitely not the only example of problematic depictions of goblins, and I'm sure there are other problematic creatures in fantasy. If there's some other depiction that you think is either problematic, or unfairly called problematic, make your own CMV post! But don't ask \"why single out goblins and hp\" in a comment on a thread titled \"the goblins in the Harry Potter books aren't antisemitic\" :)", ">\n\nWhat meant is that they're singled out by the controversy that inspired this cmv, not necessarily the people replying to this cmv. \nAnd yeah the big one is probably orcs. They map on to racist caricatures of plack people just as well as goblins of hp map onto caricatures of Jewish people. And they are far more ubiquitous in fantasy, yet I don't see anyone being outraged over it.", ">\n\nErm, I'm not Jewish, and I definitely remember reading the books when they came out and cringing at the goblins hitting so many \"awful Jewish stereotype\" notes....\nI'm assuming that Jewish people noticed that too. Do you really think no one reads things that have negative stereotypes of their group in them? I'm a woman and I've read books where I've flat out yelled at the book for some idiotic female stereotyping. Some of them even books that I otherwise really enjoyed.", ">\n\n\nJust like JKR named an Asian student Cho Chang, she can have blindspots in terms of her use of fantasy tropes that lean into certain forms of bigotry.\n\nI always find the critiques of the names so narrowly focused and don't look at the rest of the characters.\nLike is Cho Chang a very basic and reductive name? Sure.\nBut so is Seamus Finnegan for an irish kid. \nand same for basically anyone in the story that wasn't straight english. It was basically to let the audience know where these characters origins were from.\nAnd lets look at some other basic names.\nDraco Malfoy means bad trusting snake.\nAnd Severus Snape once again sounds like an evil snake man.\nAnd Remus Lupin means wolf moon.\nHarry Potter was a children's series with very basic names that give you an immediate sense of who these characters are. Reading too deep into them just seems asinine", ">\n\nI don't understand this argument. It seems to be saying a work of art can't be racist if it's translated into the language of the supposed target of racism. It's like saying an anime can't have racist depictions of black people in it because the anime was translated into English and a lot of black people like the show. I sort of see where this is coming from, but I don't see how this works.", ">\n\nI think the most neutral way of putting it would be to say the goblins in hp are coded as antisemitic Jewish caricatures.\nNow is that itself antisemitic? I guess that's debatable. They aren't explisetly Jewish but in that case are the crows from Dumbo not racist just because they aren't black humans?", ">\n\nI would guess that if you asked the people who made that movie when they made in the 1940s, they would say \"yeah, the crows are supposed to be black people\", and if you asked racists in the audience, they would say \"yeah, the crows are supposed to be black people\", but I can't ask them because they're all dead, but whether or not the crows in Dumbo are racist doesn't matter to me personally and whether the goblins in harry potter are does, because I regularly see people say \"the goblins in harry potter are antisemitic, therefore you're a bad person if you like harry potter\" by people who are very obviously just always thought Harry Potter was bad for apolitical reasons and found it frustrating when it was super popular so targeting people for liking it now that it's fallen from grace because its creator did shitty things is cathartic for them. I obviously can't prove all of their motivations, so I'm focusing on the part that is provable.", ">\n\nWell I think the goblins are at best problematic, Rowling is kinda a piece of shit and the books/movies themselves are fine there is noting wrong with liking them (I guess unless you like them because they support your views on Jewish conspiracies and/or you what to support Rowling weird anti trans campaign)\nJust because you like something that does not mean others have to be wrong about why they dislike it.", ">\n\nRowling is a piece of shit, and \"problematic\" is a perfectly accurate descriptor for them, because all it means is \"someone has a problem with this\", which applies to basically anything.", ">\n\nI grew up in Israel. While I'm not much of a Harry Potter fan, I have read some of the books and am familiar with the goblins.\nA young Israeli reading the books in Hebrew would not likely have viewed the goblins as being caricatures of Jewish people, and if they did recognize the connection they may have assumed that they were imagining something that isn't there.\nIsraelis, by and large, are not exposed to antisemitism and antisemitic tropes in their daily lives. These are things that they learn about in school, but they seem largely academic and silly because they don't correspond to anything they perceive in the real world around them. They mainly interact with other Israelis, and while they may have negative stereotypes about themselves, none of these stereotypes correspond to any of the well known antisemitic caricatures.\nIt's similar to an American reading a book about a country of bloodthirsty, torture loving, brutes who live in abject squalor (such as Mordor in Lord of the Rings) and not recognizing the North Korean propoganda view of the US.\nI'd also point out that the works of known and unrepentant antisemites like Roald Dahl enjoy popularity in Israel and don't raise any real objections.\nJewish people living elsewhere have different experiences of course.", ">\n\ni got no idea what yall on but it looks fun", ">\n\nThey correspond to a suspiciously large amount of antisemitic stereotypes for it to have been innocent.\nBeing translated into Hebrew doesn't mean anything, there are Hebrew translations of all sorts of antisemitic stuff for the sole reason that Hebrew speakers have a right to read and understand it\nThe fact of the matter is that the Goblins didn't have to even exist, Rowling chose to make a special race to handle banking. Their omission doesn't change the plot much at all. There's no reason the wizards can't handle their own banking.", ">\n\n\nAll 7 Harry Potter books have been officially translated into Hebrew, and Philosopher's Stone has been translated into Yiddish, the first edition of which sold out in 48 hours. It is my understanding of the concept of bigotry that if a book is \"overtly antisemitic\", and a Jewish person reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't realize it's antisemitic, they're really, really stupid. \nI am not arguing in favor of the moral character of J.K. Rowling as a person\n\nSince we're not arguing whether Rowling is intentionally antisemitic, couldn't we still consider the goblins to have been unintentionally antisemitic? That would allow us to acknowledge the unfortunate strong similarities between classic anti-Jewish imagery and Rowling's goblins, while at the same time refrain from accusing her from wrongdoing in that respect.", ">\n\nIt looks like all the things you describe by definition only apply to intentional antisemitism. I'm saying that it could be seen as unintentional.", ">\n\nEither you have to prove intention, or you have to prove harm. You've already admitted you can't prove intention, and no antisemites have cited harry potter as an inspiration for their beliefs, so you can't prove harm. All you can prove is that it looks like other things that are both intentional and harmful, but if someone swings at you with a wooden sword, it's not OK to shoot them dead because it looked like a real sword.", ">\n\nUnintentional antisemitism obviously won't have harm; that would be a category error.\nIt would be unintentional in the same sense as if e.g. a toddler were to call a Black person the n-word. It would not be considered harmful either, but one can still call it unintentionally racist." ]