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This sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression. | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now."
] |
>
Which ones don't? | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression."
] |
>
What the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them. | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?"
] |
>
And what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors.
They are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon. | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them."
] |
>
His point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not. | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon."
] |
>
Peaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan. | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not."
] |
>
Protests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule. | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan."
] |
>
I'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule."
] |
>
No.
They have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free.
And the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas. | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole"
] |
>
Interested in how reputable the journalism at oneindia is. Anyone from India with some insight? | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole",
">\n\nNo. \nThey have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free. \nAnd the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas."
] |
>
Hope and pray for the Islamic regime of Iran to get executed soon. | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole",
">\n\nNo. \nThey have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free. \nAnd the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas.",
">\n\nInterested in how reputable the journalism at oneindia is. Anyone from India with some insight?"
] |
>
I'm absolutely not surprised at the barbarism of this Iranian regime. After all the senior leaders in Iran were the ones using children armed with plastic keys as meat shields against dug in Iraqi positions and to clear minefields in the 80's. | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole",
">\n\nNo. \nThey have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free. \nAnd the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas.",
">\n\nInterested in how reputable the journalism at oneindia is. Anyone from India with some insight?",
">\n\nHope and pray for the Islamic regime of Iran to get executed soon."
] |
>
When has Iran not been a human right crisis? | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole",
">\n\nNo. \nThey have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free. \nAnd the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas.",
">\n\nInterested in how reputable the journalism at oneindia is. Anyone from India with some insight?",
">\n\nHope and pray for the Islamic regime of Iran to get executed soon.",
">\n\nI'm absolutely not surprised at the barbarism of this Iranian regime. After all the senior leaders in Iran were the ones using children armed with plastic keys as meat shields against dug in Iraqi positions and to clear minefields in the 80's."
] |
>
1946-1953, when Iran was forced to become a parliamentary monarchy (instead of a autocratic one) after the USSR-UK invasion and occupation during WW2
Lasted until the USA-UK (again) deposed the prime-minister and reinstated the Shah as autocratic, because the PM wanted to nationalize the oil industry then mostly owned by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company. | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole",
">\n\nNo. \nThey have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free. \nAnd the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas.",
">\n\nInterested in how reputable the journalism at oneindia is. Anyone from India with some insight?",
">\n\nHope and pray for the Islamic regime of Iran to get executed soon.",
">\n\nI'm absolutely not surprised at the barbarism of this Iranian regime. After all the senior leaders in Iran were the ones using children armed with plastic keys as meat shields against dug in Iraqi positions and to clear minefields in the 80's.",
">\n\nWhen has Iran not been a human right crisis?"
] |
>
Weak, pathetic, and abhorrent. | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole",
">\n\nNo. \nThey have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free. \nAnd the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas.",
">\n\nInterested in how reputable the journalism at oneindia is. Anyone from India with some insight?",
">\n\nHope and pray for the Islamic regime of Iran to get executed soon.",
">\n\nI'm absolutely not surprised at the barbarism of this Iranian regime. After all the senior leaders in Iran were the ones using children armed with plastic keys as meat shields against dug in Iraqi positions and to clear minefields in the 80's.",
">\n\nWhen has Iran not been a human right crisis?",
">\n\n1946-1953, when Iran was forced to become a parliamentary monarchy (instead of a autocratic one) after the USSR-UK invasion and occupation during WW2\nLasted until the USA-UK (again) deposed the prime-minister and reinstated the Shah as autocratic, because the PM wanted to nationalize the oil industry then mostly owned by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company."
] |
>
Iranians are sick in their heads. They have, by and far, the most reported executions every year.
They are also complete heathens for choosing to execute people with the most painful hanging methods available by using cranes and drop floors.
The movie "There Is No Evil / Sheytan Vojud Nadarad" by director Mohammad Rasoulof shows what life is like in Iran under the perpetual specter of death by execution. It's quite sobering.
I want to be supportive of the movement but the protests should be about ending their savagery towards their own people ffs. It's like they are completely missing the boat. They are so fucked in their heads they don't even see the executions of their own people as the primary issue that should be driving their protests! | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole",
">\n\nNo. \nThey have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free. \nAnd the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas.",
">\n\nInterested in how reputable the journalism at oneindia is. Anyone from India with some insight?",
">\n\nHope and pray for the Islamic regime of Iran to get executed soon.",
">\n\nI'm absolutely not surprised at the barbarism of this Iranian regime. After all the senior leaders in Iran were the ones using children armed with plastic keys as meat shields against dug in Iraqi positions and to clear minefields in the 80's.",
">\n\nWhen has Iran not been a human right crisis?",
">\n\n1946-1953, when Iran was forced to become a parliamentary monarchy (instead of a autocratic one) after the USSR-UK invasion and occupation during WW2\nLasted until the USA-UK (again) deposed the prime-minister and reinstated the Shah as autocratic, because the PM wanted to nationalize the oil industry then mostly owned by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company.",
">\n\nWeak, pathetic, and abhorrent."
] |
>
Another good example of what the 2nd amendment protects us from... | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole",
">\n\nNo. \nThey have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free. \nAnd the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas.",
">\n\nInterested in how reputable the journalism at oneindia is. Anyone from India with some insight?",
">\n\nHope and pray for the Islamic regime of Iran to get executed soon.",
">\n\nI'm absolutely not surprised at the barbarism of this Iranian regime. After all the senior leaders in Iran were the ones using children armed with plastic keys as meat shields against dug in Iraqi positions and to clear minefields in the 80's.",
">\n\nWhen has Iran not been a human right crisis?",
">\n\n1946-1953, when Iran was forced to become a parliamentary monarchy (instead of a autocratic one) after the USSR-UK invasion and occupation during WW2\nLasted until the USA-UK (again) deposed the prime-minister and reinstated the Shah as autocratic, because the PM wanted to nationalize the oil industry then mostly owned by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company.",
">\n\nWeak, pathetic, and abhorrent.",
">\n\nIranians are sick in their heads. They have, by and far, the most reported executions every year.\nThey are also complete heathens for choosing to execute people with the most painful hanging methods available by using cranes and drop floors.\nThe movie \"There Is No Evil / Sheytan Vojud Nadarad\" by director Mohammad Rasoulof shows what life is like in Iran under the perpetual specter of death by execution. It's quite sobering.\nI want to be supportive of the movement but the protests should be about ending their savagery towards their own people ffs. It's like they are completely missing the boat. They are so fucked in their heads they don't even see the executions of their own people as the primary issue that should be driving their protests!"
] |
>
Pretty sure the US gov would never do something like that to their people even if they don’t own guns | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole",
">\n\nNo. \nThey have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free. \nAnd the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas.",
">\n\nInterested in how reputable the journalism at oneindia is. Anyone from India with some insight?",
">\n\nHope and pray for the Islamic regime of Iran to get executed soon.",
">\n\nI'm absolutely not surprised at the barbarism of this Iranian regime. After all the senior leaders in Iran were the ones using children armed with plastic keys as meat shields against dug in Iraqi positions and to clear minefields in the 80's.",
">\n\nWhen has Iran not been a human right crisis?",
">\n\n1946-1953, when Iran was forced to become a parliamentary monarchy (instead of a autocratic one) after the USSR-UK invasion and occupation during WW2\nLasted until the USA-UK (again) deposed the prime-minister and reinstated the Shah as autocratic, because the PM wanted to nationalize the oil industry then mostly owned by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company.",
">\n\nWeak, pathetic, and abhorrent.",
">\n\nIranians are sick in their heads. They have, by and far, the most reported executions every year.\nThey are also complete heathens for choosing to execute people with the most painful hanging methods available by using cranes and drop floors.\nThe movie \"There Is No Evil / Sheytan Vojud Nadarad\" by director Mohammad Rasoulof shows what life is like in Iran under the perpetual specter of death by execution. It's quite sobering.\nI want to be supportive of the movement but the protests should be about ending their savagery towards their own people ffs. It's like they are completely missing the boat. They are so fucked in their heads they don't even see the executions of their own people as the primary issue that should be driving their protests!",
">\n\nAnother good example of what the 2nd amendment protects us from..."
] |
>
Pretty sure it’s best not to blindly trust government. | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole",
">\n\nNo. \nThey have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free. \nAnd the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas.",
">\n\nInterested in how reputable the journalism at oneindia is. Anyone from India with some insight?",
">\n\nHope and pray for the Islamic regime of Iran to get executed soon.",
">\n\nI'm absolutely not surprised at the barbarism of this Iranian regime. After all the senior leaders in Iran were the ones using children armed with plastic keys as meat shields against dug in Iraqi positions and to clear minefields in the 80's.",
">\n\nWhen has Iran not been a human right crisis?",
">\n\n1946-1953, when Iran was forced to become a parliamentary monarchy (instead of a autocratic one) after the USSR-UK invasion and occupation during WW2\nLasted until the USA-UK (again) deposed the prime-minister and reinstated the Shah as autocratic, because the PM wanted to nationalize the oil industry then mostly owned by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company.",
">\n\nWeak, pathetic, and abhorrent.",
">\n\nIranians are sick in their heads. They have, by and far, the most reported executions every year.\nThey are also complete heathens for choosing to execute people with the most painful hanging methods available by using cranes and drop floors.\nThe movie \"There Is No Evil / Sheytan Vojud Nadarad\" by director Mohammad Rasoulof shows what life is like in Iran under the perpetual specter of death by execution. It's quite sobering.\nI want to be supportive of the movement but the protests should be about ending their savagery towards their own people ffs. It's like they are completely missing the boat. They are so fucked in their heads they don't even see the executions of their own people as the primary issue that should be driving their protests!",
">\n\nAnother good example of what the 2nd amendment protects us from...",
">\n\nPretty sure the US gov would never do something like that to their people even if they don’t own guns"
] |
>
I didn’t say we should blindly trust them, but the US have a solid constitution they can’t just ignore it and go full dictatorship. | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole",
">\n\nNo. \nThey have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free. \nAnd the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas.",
">\n\nInterested in how reputable the journalism at oneindia is. Anyone from India with some insight?",
">\n\nHope and pray for the Islamic regime of Iran to get executed soon.",
">\n\nI'm absolutely not surprised at the barbarism of this Iranian regime. After all the senior leaders in Iran were the ones using children armed with plastic keys as meat shields against dug in Iraqi positions and to clear minefields in the 80's.",
">\n\nWhen has Iran not been a human right crisis?",
">\n\n1946-1953, when Iran was forced to become a parliamentary monarchy (instead of a autocratic one) after the USSR-UK invasion and occupation during WW2\nLasted until the USA-UK (again) deposed the prime-minister and reinstated the Shah as autocratic, because the PM wanted to nationalize the oil industry then mostly owned by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company.",
">\n\nWeak, pathetic, and abhorrent.",
">\n\nIranians are sick in their heads. They have, by and far, the most reported executions every year.\nThey are also complete heathens for choosing to execute people with the most painful hanging methods available by using cranes and drop floors.\nThe movie \"There Is No Evil / Sheytan Vojud Nadarad\" by director Mohammad Rasoulof shows what life is like in Iran under the perpetual specter of death by execution. It's quite sobering.\nI want to be supportive of the movement but the protests should be about ending their savagery towards their own people ffs. It's like they are completely missing the boat. They are so fucked in their heads they don't even see the executions of their own people as the primary issue that should be driving their protests!",
">\n\nAnother good example of what the 2nd amendment protects us from...",
">\n\nPretty sure the US gov would never do something like that to their people even if they don’t own guns",
">\n\nPretty sure it’s best not to blindly trust government."
] |
>
If Trump gets elected again he'll probably try to make up some bullshit excuse to declare emergency powers and dissolve the constitution... he's already called for it to be terminated... | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole",
">\n\nNo. \nThey have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free. \nAnd the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas.",
">\n\nInterested in how reputable the journalism at oneindia is. Anyone from India with some insight?",
">\n\nHope and pray for the Islamic regime of Iran to get executed soon.",
">\n\nI'm absolutely not surprised at the barbarism of this Iranian regime. After all the senior leaders in Iran were the ones using children armed with plastic keys as meat shields against dug in Iraqi positions and to clear minefields in the 80's.",
">\n\nWhen has Iran not been a human right crisis?",
">\n\n1946-1953, when Iran was forced to become a parliamentary monarchy (instead of a autocratic one) after the USSR-UK invasion and occupation during WW2\nLasted until the USA-UK (again) deposed the prime-minister and reinstated the Shah as autocratic, because the PM wanted to nationalize the oil industry then mostly owned by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company.",
">\n\nWeak, pathetic, and abhorrent.",
">\n\nIranians are sick in their heads. They have, by and far, the most reported executions every year.\nThey are also complete heathens for choosing to execute people with the most painful hanging methods available by using cranes and drop floors.\nThe movie \"There Is No Evil / Sheytan Vojud Nadarad\" by director Mohammad Rasoulof shows what life is like in Iran under the perpetual specter of death by execution. It's quite sobering.\nI want to be supportive of the movement but the protests should be about ending their savagery towards their own people ffs. It's like they are completely missing the boat. They are so fucked in their heads they don't even see the executions of their own people as the primary issue that should be driving their protests!",
">\n\nAnother good example of what the 2nd amendment protects us from...",
">\n\nPretty sure the US gov would never do something like that to their people even if they don’t own guns",
">\n\nPretty sure it’s best not to blindly trust government.",
">\n\nI didn’t say we should blindly trust them, but the US have a solid constitution they can’t just ignore it and go full dictatorship."
] |
>
Somehow these weirdos always seem to come back to trump.
I’ll tell you this, my life was much more manageable under Trump than Biden, but as long as weirdos feel like they are protected then I guess the hardships of thousands of families don’t matter at all. | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole",
">\n\nNo. \nThey have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free. \nAnd the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas.",
">\n\nInterested in how reputable the journalism at oneindia is. Anyone from India with some insight?",
">\n\nHope and pray for the Islamic regime of Iran to get executed soon.",
">\n\nI'm absolutely not surprised at the barbarism of this Iranian regime. After all the senior leaders in Iran were the ones using children armed with plastic keys as meat shields against dug in Iraqi positions and to clear minefields in the 80's.",
">\n\nWhen has Iran not been a human right crisis?",
">\n\n1946-1953, when Iran was forced to become a parliamentary monarchy (instead of a autocratic one) after the USSR-UK invasion and occupation during WW2\nLasted until the USA-UK (again) deposed the prime-minister and reinstated the Shah as autocratic, because the PM wanted to nationalize the oil industry then mostly owned by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company.",
">\n\nWeak, pathetic, and abhorrent.",
">\n\nIranians are sick in their heads. They have, by and far, the most reported executions every year.\nThey are also complete heathens for choosing to execute people with the most painful hanging methods available by using cranes and drop floors.\nThe movie \"There Is No Evil / Sheytan Vojud Nadarad\" by director Mohammad Rasoulof shows what life is like in Iran under the perpetual specter of death by execution. It's quite sobering.\nI want to be supportive of the movement but the protests should be about ending their savagery towards their own people ffs. It's like they are completely missing the boat. They are so fucked in their heads they don't even see the executions of their own people as the primary issue that should be driving their protests!",
">\n\nAnother good example of what the 2nd amendment protects us from...",
">\n\nPretty sure the US gov would never do something like that to their people even if they don’t own guns",
">\n\nPretty sure it’s best not to blindly trust government.",
">\n\nI didn’t say we should blindly trust them, but the US have a solid constitution they can’t just ignore it and go full dictatorship.",
">\n\nIf Trump gets elected again he'll probably try to make up some bullshit excuse to declare emergency powers and dissolve the constitution... he's already called for it to be terminated..."
] |
>
I’m not american but this obsession with trump is also so weird to me. Is it only on reddit? | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole",
">\n\nNo. \nThey have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free. \nAnd the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas.",
">\n\nInterested in how reputable the journalism at oneindia is. Anyone from India with some insight?",
">\n\nHope and pray for the Islamic regime of Iran to get executed soon.",
">\n\nI'm absolutely not surprised at the barbarism of this Iranian regime. After all the senior leaders in Iran were the ones using children armed with plastic keys as meat shields against dug in Iraqi positions and to clear minefields in the 80's.",
">\n\nWhen has Iran not been a human right crisis?",
">\n\n1946-1953, when Iran was forced to become a parliamentary monarchy (instead of a autocratic one) after the USSR-UK invasion and occupation during WW2\nLasted until the USA-UK (again) deposed the prime-minister and reinstated the Shah as autocratic, because the PM wanted to nationalize the oil industry then mostly owned by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company.",
">\n\nWeak, pathetic, and abhorrent.",
">\n\nIranians are sick in their heads. They have, by and far, the most reported executions every year.\nThey are also complete heathens for choosing to execute people with the most painful hanging methods available by using cranes and drop floors.\nThe movie \"There Is No Evil / Sheytan Vojud Nadarad\" by director Mohammad Rasoulof shows what life is like in Iran under the perpetual specter of death by execution. It's quite sobering.\nI want to be supportive of the movement but the protests should be about ending their savagery towards their own people ffs. It's like they are completely missing the boat. They are so fucked in their heads they don't even see the executions of their own people as the primary issue that should be driving their protests!",
">\n\nAnother good example of what the 2nd amendment protects us from...",
">\n\nPretty sure the US gov would never do something like that to their people even if they don’t own guns",
">\n\nPretty sure it’s best not to blindly trust government.",
">\n\nI didn’t say we should blindly trust them, but the US have a solid constitution they can’t just ignore it and go full dictatorship.",
">\n\nIf Trump gets elected again he'll probably try to make up some bullshit excuse to declare emergency powers and dissolve the constitution... he's already called for it to be terminated...",
">\n\nSomehow these weirdos always seem to come back to trump.\nI’ll tell you this, my life was much more manageable under Trump than Biden, but as long as weirdos feel like they are protected then I guess the hardships of thousands of families don’t matter at all."
] |
>
No, it’s because he’s a literal fascist in-the-making | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole",
">\n\nNo. \nThey have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free. \nAnd the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas.",
">\n\nInterested in how reputable the journalism at oneindia is. Anyone from India with some insight?",
">\n\nHope and pray for the Islamic regime of Iran to get executed soon.",
">\n\nI'm absolutely not surprised at the barbarism of this Iranian regime. After all the senior leaders in Iran were the ones using children armed with plastic keys as meat shields against dug in Iraqi positions and to clear minefields in the 80's.",
">\n\nWhen has Iran not been a human right crisis?",
">\n\n1946-1953, when Iran was forced to become a parliamentary monarchy (instead of a autocratic one) after the USSR-UK invasion and occupation during WW2\nLasted until the USA-UK (again) deposed the prime-minister and reinstated the Shah as autocratic, because the PM wanted to nationalize the oil industry then mostly owned by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company.",
">\n\nWeak, pathetic, and abhorrent.",
">\n\nIranians are sick in their heads. They have, by and far, the most reported executions every year.\nThey are also complete heathens for choosing to execute people with the most painful hanging methods available by using cranes and drop floors.\nThe movie \"There Is No Evil / Sheytan Vojud Nadarad\" by director Mohammad Rasoulof shows what life is like in Iran under the perpetual specter of death by execution. It's quite sobering.\nI want to be supportive of the movement but the protests should be about ending their savagery towards their own people ffs. It's like they are completely missing the boat. They are so fucked in their heads they don't even see the executions of their own people as the primary issue that should be driving their protests!",
">\n\nAnother good example of what the 2nd amendment protects us from...",
">\n\nPretty sure the US gov would never do something like that to their people even if they don’t own guns",
">\n\nPretty sure it’s best not to blindly trust government.",
">\n\nI didn’t say we should blindly trust them, but the US have a solid constitution they can’t just ignore it and go full dictatorship.",
">\n\nIf Trump gets elected again he'll probably try to make up some bullshit excuse to declare emergency powers and dissolve the constitution... he's already called for it to be terminated...",
">\n\nSomehow these weirdos always seem to come back to trump.\nI’ll tell you this, my life was much more manageable under Trump than Biden, but as long as weirdos feel like they are protected then I guess the hardships of thousands of families don’t matter at all.",
">\n\nI’m not american but this obsession with trump is also so weird to me. Is it only on reddit?"
] |
>
That’s unjust fuel for a wildfire. It’s not a deterrent as much as it is shit inspiration. Keep up your fight. | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole",
">\n\nNo. \nThey have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free. \nAnd the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas.",
">\n\nInterested in how reputable the journalism at oneindia is. Anyone from India with some insight?",
">\n\nHope and pray for the Islamic regime of Iran to get executed soon.",
">\n\nI'm absolutely not surprised at the barbarism of this Iranian regime. After all the senior leaders in Iran were the ones using children armed with plastic keys as meat shields against dug in Iraqi positions and to clear minefields in the 80's.",
">\n\nWhen has Iran not been a human right crisis?",
">\n\n1946-1953, when Iran was forced to become a parliamentary monarchy (instead of a autocratic one) after the USSR-UK invasion and occupation during WW2\nLasted until the USA-UK (again) deposed the prime-minister and reinstated the Shah as autocratic, because the PM wanted to nationalize the oil industry then mostly owned by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company.",
">\n\nWeak, pathetic, and abhorrent.",
">\n\nIranians are sick in their heads. They have, by and far, the most reported executions every year.\nThey are also complete heathens for choosing to execute people with the most painful hanging methods available by using cranes and drop floors.\nThe movie \"There Is No Evil / Sheytan Vojud Nadarad\" by director Mohammad Rasoulof shows what life is like in Iran under the perpetual specter of death by execution. It's quite sobering.\nI want to be supportive of the movement but the protests should be about ending their savagery towards their own people ffs. It's like they are completely missing the boat. They are so fucked in their heads they don't even see the executions of their own people as the primary issue that should be driving their protests!",
">\n\nAnother good example of what the 2nd amendment protects us from...",
">\n\nPretty sure the US gov would never do something like that to their people even if they don’t own guns",
">\n\nPretty sure it’s best not to blindly trust government.",
">\n\nI didn’t say we should blindly trust them, but the US have a solid constitution they can’t just ignore it and go full dictatorship.",
">\n\nIf Trump gets elected again he'll probably try to make up some bullshit excuse to declare emergency powers and dissolve the constitution... he's already called for it to be terminated...",
">\n\nSomehow these weirdos always seem to come back to trump.\nI’ll tell you this, my life was much more manageable under Trump than Biden, but as long as weirdos feel like they are protected then I guess the hardships of thousands of families don’t matter at all.",
">\n\nI’m not american but this obsession with trump is also so weird to me. Is it only on reddit?",
">\n\nNo, it’s because he’s a literal fascist in-the-making"
] |
>
Can you have a human rights crisis if you have no rights? | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole",
">\n\nNo. \nThey have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free. \nAnd the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas.",
">\n\nInterested in how reputable the journalism at oneindia is. Anyone from India with some insight?",
">\n\nHope and pray for the Islamic regime of Iran to get executed soon.",
">\n\nI'm absolutely not surprised at the barbarism of this Iranian regime. After all the senior leaders in Iran were the ones using children armed with plastic keys as meat shields against dug in Iraqi positions and to clear minefields in the 80's.",
">\n\nWhen has Iran not been a human right crisis?",
">\n\n1946-1953, when Iran was forced to become a parliamentary monarchy (instead of a autocratic one) after the USSR-UK invasion and occupation during WW2\nLasted until the USA-UK (again) deposed the prime-minister and reinstated the Shah as autocratic, because the PM wanted to nationalize the oil industry then mostly owned by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company.",
">\n\nWeak, pathetic, and abhorrent.",
">\n\nIranians are sick in their heads. They have, by and far, the most reported executions every year.\nThey are also complete heathens for choosing to execute people with the most painful hanging methods available by using cranes and drop floors.\nThe movie \"There Is No Evil / Sheytan Vojud Nadarad\" by director Mohammad Rasoulof shows what life is like in Iran under the perpetual specter of death by execution. It's quite sobering.\nI want to be supportive of the movement but the protests should be about ending their savagery towards their own people ffs. It's like they are completely missing the boat. They are so fucked in their heads they don't even see the executions of their own people as the primary issue that should be driving their protests!",
">\n\nAnother good example of what the 2nd amendment protects us from...",
">\n\nPretty sure the US gov would never do something like that to their people even if they don’t own guns",
">\n\nPretty sure it’s best not to blindly trust government.",
">\n\nI didn’t say we should blindly trust them, but the US have a solid constitution they can’t just ignore it and go full dictatorship.",
">\n\nIf Trump gets elected again he'll probably try to make up some bullshit excuse to declare emergency powers and dissolve the constitution... he's already called for it to be terminated...",
">\n\nSomehow these weirdos always seem to come back to trump.\nI’ll tell you this, my life was much more manageable under Trump than Biden, but as long as weirdos feel like they are protected then I guess the hardships of thousands of families don’t matter at all.",
">\n\nI’m not american but this obsession with trump is also so weird to me. Is it only on reddit?",
">\n\nNo, it’s because he’s a literal fascist in-the-making",
">\n\nThat’s unjust fuel for a wildfire. It’s not a deterrent as much as it is shit inspiration. Keep up your fight."
] |
>
Barbaric primitive state | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole",
">\n\nNo. \nThey have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free. \nAnd the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas.",
">\n\nInterested in how reputable the journalism at oneindia is. Anyone from India with some insight?",
">\n\nHope and pray for the Islamic regime of Iran to get executed soon.",
">\n\nI'm absolutely not surprised at the barbarism of this Iranian regime. After all the senior leaders in Iran were the ones using children armed with plastic keys as meat shields against dug in Iraqi positions and to clear minefields in the 80's.",
">\n\nWhen has Iran not been a human right crisis?",
">\n\n1946-1953, when Iran was forced to become a parliamentary monarchy (instead of a autocratic one) after the USSR-UK invasion and occupation during WW2\nLasted until the USA-UK (again) deposed the prime-minister and reinstated the Shah as autocratic, because the PM wanted to nationalize the oil industry then mostly owned by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company.",
">\n\nWeak, pathetic, and abhorrent.",
">\n\nIranians are sick in their heads. They have, by and far, the most reported executions every year.\nThey are also complete heathens for choosing to execute people with the most painful hanging methods available by using cranes and drop floors.\nThe movie \"There Is No Evil / Sheytan Vojud Nadarad\" by director Mohammad Rasoulof shows what life is like in Iran under the perpetual specter of death by execution. It's quite sobering.\nI want to be supportive of the movement but the protests should be about ending their savagery towards their own people ffs. It's like they are completely missing the boat. They are so fucked in their heads they don't even see the executions of their own people as the primary issue that should be driving their protests!",
">\n\nAnother good example of what the 2nd amendment protects us from...",
">\n\nPretty sure the US gov would never do something like that to their people even if they don’t own guns",
">\n\nPretty sure it’s best not to blindly trust government.",
">\n\nI didn’t say we should blindly trust them, but the US have a solid constitution they can’t just ignore it and go full dictatorship.",
">\n\nIf Trump gets elected again he'll probably try to make up some bullshit excuse to declare emergency powers and dissolve the constitution... he's already called for it to be terminated...",
">\n\nSomehow these weirdos always seem to come back to trump.\nI’ll tell you this, my life was much more manageable under Trump than Biden, but as long as weirdos feel like they are protected then I guess the hardships of thousands of families don’t matter at all.",
">\n\nI’m not american but this obsession with trump is also so weird to me. Is it only on reddit?",
">\n\nNo, it’s because he’s a literal fascist in-the-making",
">\n\nThat’s unjust fuel for a wildfire. It’s not a deterrent as much as it is shit inspiration. Keep up your fight.",
">\n\nCan you have a human rights crisis if you have no rights?"
] |
>
Execute them back. | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole",
">\n\nNo. \nThey have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free. \nAnd the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas.",
">\n\nInterested in how reputable the journalism at oneindia is. Anyone from India with some insight?",
">\n\nHope and pray for the Islamic regime of Iran to get executed soon.",
">\n\nI'm absolutely not surprised at the barbarism of this Iranian regime. After all the senior leaders in Iran were the ones using children armed with plastic keys as meat shields against dug in Iraqi positions and to clear minefields in the 80's.",
">\n\nWhen has Iran not been a human right crisis?",
">\n\n1946-1953, when Iran was forced to become a parliamentary monarchy (instead of a autocratic one) after the USSR-UK invasion and occupation during WW2\nLasted until the USA-UK (again) deposed the prime-minister and reinstated the Shah as autocratic, because the PM wanted to nationalize the oil industry then mostly owned by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company.",
">\n\nWeak, pathetic, and abhorrent.",
">\n\nIranians are sick in their heads. They have, by and far, the most reported executions every year.\nThey are also complete heathens for choosing to execute people with the most painful hanging methods available by using cranes and drop floors.\nThe movie \"There Is No Evil / Sheytan Vojud Nadarad\" by director Mohammad Rasoulof shows what life is like in Iran under the perpetual specter of death by execution. It's quite sobering.\nI want to be supportive of the movement but the protests should be about ending their savagery towards their own people ffs. It's like they are completely missing the boat. They are so fucked in their heads they don't even see the executions of their own people as the primary issue that should be driving their protests!",
">\n\nAnother good example of what the 2nd amendment protects us from...",
">\n\nPretty sure the US gov would never do something like that to their people even if they don’t own guns",
">\n\nPretty sure it’s best not to blindly trust government.",
">\n\nI didn’t say we should blindly trust them, but the US have a solid constitution they can’t just ignore it and go full dictatorship.",
">\n\nIf Trump gets elected again he'll probably try to make up some bullshit excuse to declare emergency powers and dissolve the constitution... he's already called for it to be terminated...",
">\n\nSomehow these weirdos always seem to come back to trump.\nI’ll tell you this, my life was much more manageable under Trump than Biden, but as long as weirdos feel like they are protected then I guess the hardships of thousands of families don’t matter at all.",
">\n\nI’m not american but this obsession with trump is also so weird to me. Is it only on reddit?",
">\n\nNo, it’s because he’s a literal fascist in-the-making",
">\n\nThat’s unjust fuel for a wildfire. It’s not a deterrent as much as it is shit inspiration. Keep up your fight.",
">\n\nCan you have a human rights crisis if you have no rights?",
">\n\nBarbaric primitive state"
] |
>
What they need is weapon. You cant peacefully overthrow a barbaric regime who gives no f*ck about their citizens’s opinions. | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole",
">\n\nNo. \nThey have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free. \nAnd the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas.",
">\n\nInterested in how reputable the journalism at oneindia is. Anyone from India with some insight?",
">\n\nHope and pray for the Islamic regime of Iran to get executed soon.",
">\n\nI'm absolutely not surprised at the barbarism of this Iranian regime. After all the senior leaders in Iran were the ones using children armed with plastic keys as meat shields against dug in Iraqi positions and to clear minefields in the 80's.",
">\n\nWhen has Iran not been a human right crisis?",
">\n\n1946-1953, when Iran was forced to become a parliamentary monarchy (instead of a autocratic one) after the USSR-UK invasion and occupation during WW2\nLasted until the USA-UK (again) deposed the prime-minister and reinstated the Shah as autocratic, because the PM wanted to nationalize the oil industry then mostly owned by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company.",
">\n\nWeak, pathetic, and abhorrent.",
">\n\nIranians are sick in their heads. They have, by and far, the most reported executions every year.\nThey are also complete heathens for choosing to execute people with the most painful hanging methods available by using cranes and drop floors.\nThe movie \"There Is No Evil / Sheytan Vojud Nadarad\" by director Mohammad Rasoulof shows what life is like in Iran under the perpetual specter of death by execution. It's quite sobering.\nI want to be supportive of the movement but the protests should be about ending their savagery towards their own people ffs. It's like they are completely missing the boat. They are so fucked in their heads they don't even see the executions of their own people as the primary issue that should be driving their protests!",
">\n\nAnother good example of what the 2nd amendment protects us from...",
">\n\nPretty sure the US gov would never do something like that to their people even if they don’t own guns",
">\n\nPretty sure it’s best not to blindly trust government.",
">\n\nI didn’t say we should blindly trust them, but the US have a solid constitution they can’t just ignore it and go full dictatorship.",
">\n\nIf Trump gets elected again he'll probably try to make up some bullshit excuse to declare emergency powers and dissolve the constitution... he's already called for it to be terminated...",
">\n\nSomehow these weirdos always seem to come back to trump.\nI’ll tell you this, my life was much more manageable under Trump than Biden, but as long as weirdos feel like they are protected then I guess the hardships of thousands of families don’t matter at all.",
">\n\nI’m not american but this obsession with trump is also so weird to me. Is it only on reddit?",
">\n\nNo, it’s because he’s a literal fascist in-the-making",
">\n\nThat’s unjust fuel for a wildfire. It’s not a deterrent as much as it is shit inspiration. Keep up your fight.",
">\n\nCan you have a human rights crisis if you have no rights?",
">\n\nBarbaric primitive state",
">\n\nExecute them back."
] |
>
Gotta get some weapons into the hands of the Iranian resistance so that they can fight back. | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole",
">\n\nNo. \nThey have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free. \nAnd the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas.",
">\n\nInterested in how reputable the journalism at oneindia is. Anyone from India with some insight?",
">\n\nHope and pray for the Islamic regime of Iran to get executed soon.",
">\n\nI'm absolutely not surprised at the barbarism of this Iranian regime. After all the senior leaders in Iran were the ones using children armed with plastic keys as meat shields against dug in Iraqi positions and to clear minefields in the 80's.",
">\n\nWhen has Iran not been a human right crisis?",
">\n\n1946-1953, when Iran was forced to become a parliamentary monarchy (instead of a autocratic one) after the USSR-UK invasion and occupation during WW2\nLasted until the USA-UK (again) deposed the prime-minister and reinstated the Shah as autocratic, because the PM wanted to nationalize the oil industry then mostly owned by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company.",
">\n\nWeak, pathetic, and abhorrent.",
">\n\nIranians are sick in their heads. They have, by and far, the most reported executions every year.\nThey are also complete heathens for choosing to execute people with the most painful hanging methods available by using cranes and drop floors.\nThe movie \"There Is No Evil / Sheytan Vojud Nadarad\" by director Mohammad Rasoulof shows what life is like in Iran under the perpetual specter of death by execution. It's quite sobering.\nI want to be supportive of the movement but the protests should be about ending their savagery towards their own people ffs. It's like they are completely missing the boat. They are so fucked in their heads they don't even see the executions of their own people as the primary issue that should be driving their protests!",
">\n\nAnother good example of what the 2nd amendment protects us from...",
">\n\nPretty sure the US gov would never do something like that to their people even if they don’t own guns",
">\n\nPretty sure it’s best not to blindly trust government.",
">\n\nI didn’t say we should blindly trust them, but the US have a solid constitution they can’t just ignore it and go full dictatorship.",
">\n\nIf Trump gets elected again he'll probably try to make up some bullshit excuse to declare emergency powers and dissolve the constitution... he's already called for it to be terminated...",
">\n\nSomehow these weirdos always seem to come back to trump.\nI’ll tell you this, my life was much more manageable under Trump than Biden, but as long as weirdos feel like they are protected then I guess the hardships of thousands of families don’t matter at all.",
">\n\nI’m not american but this obsession with trump is also so weird to me. Is it only on reddit?",
">\n\nNo, it’s because he’s a literal fascist in-the-making",
">\n\nThat’s unjust fuel for a wildfire. It’s not a deterrent as much as it is shit inspiration. Keep up your fight.",
">\n\nCan you have a human rights crisis if you have no rights?",
">\n\nBarbaric primitive state",
">\n\nExecute them back.",
">\n\nWhat they need is weapon. You cant peacefully overthrow a barbaric regime who gives no f*ck about their citizens’s opinions."
] |
>
The Iranian government is disgusting. What pathetic and sensitive babies. I truly hope the citizens take some knowledge from Italy and execute the government officials publicly. | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole",
">\n\nNo. \nThey have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free. \nAnd the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas.",
">\n\nInterested in how reputable the journalism at oneindia is. Anyone from India with some insight?",
">\n\nHope and pray for the Islamic regime of Iran to get executed soon.",
">\n\nI'm absolutely not surprised at the barbarism of this Iranian regime. After all the senior leaders in Iran were the ones using children armed with plastic keys as meat shields against dug in Iraqi positions and to clear minefields in the 80's.",
">\n\nWhen has Iran not been a human right crisis?",
">\n\n1946-1953, when Iran was forced to become a parliamentary monarchy (instead of a autocratic one) after the USSR-UK invasion and occupation during WW2\nLasted until the USA-UK (again) deposed the prime-minister and reinstated the Shah as autocratic, because the PM wanted to nationalize the oil industry then mostly owned by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company.",
">\n\nWeak, pathetic, and abhorrent.",
">\n\nIranians are sick in their heads. They have, by and far, the most reported executions every year.\nThey are also complete heathens for choosing to execute people with the most painful hanging methods available by using cranes and drop floors.\nThe movie \"There Is No Evil / Sheytan Vojud Nadarad\" by director Mohammad Rasoulof shows what life is like in Iran under the perpetual specter of death by execution. It's quite sobering.\nI want to be supportive of the movement but the protests should be about ending their savagery towards their own people ffs. It's like they are completely missing the boat. They are so fucked in their heads they don't even see the executions of their own people as the primary issue that should be driving their protests!",
">\n\nAnother good example of what the 2nd amendment protects us from...",
">\n\nPretty sure the US gov would never do something like that to their people even if they don’t own guns",
">\n\nPretty sure it’s best not to blindly trust government.",
">\n\nI didn’t say we should blindly trust them, but the US have a solid constitution they can’t just ignore it and go full dictatorship.",
">\n\nIf Trump gets elected again he'll probably try to make up some bullshit excuse to declare emergency powers and dissolve the constitution... he's already called for it to be terminated...",
">\n\nSomehow these weirdos always seem to come back to trump.\nI’ll tell you this, my life was much more manageable under Trump than Biden, but as long as weirdos feel like they are protected then I guess the hardships of thousands of families don’t matter at all.",
">\n\nI’m not american but this obsession with trump is also so weird to me. Is it only on reddit?",
">\n\nNo, it’s because he’s a literal fascist in-the-making",
">\n\nThat’s unjust fuel for a wildfire. It’s not a deterrent as much as it is shit inspiration. Keep up your fight.",
">\n\nCan you have a human rights crisis if you have no rights?",
">\n\nBarbaric primitive state",
">\n\nExecute them back.",
">\n\nWhat they need is weapon. You cant peacefully overthrow a barbaric regime who gives no f*ck about their citizens’s opinions.",
">\n\nGotta get some weapons into the hands of the Iranian resistance so that they can fight back."
] |
> | [
"by executing the protesters, the goverment is making them martyrs. \ntorturing then execution is just very inhumane. this is what humans did thousands of years ago.i hope the people overthrow the goverment",
">\n\nWhile that's a romantic way of looking at it, the truth is it will decrease the chances of \"the people\" being willing to risk their lives in the future to \"overthrow the government\". Luckily for us, its the Iranians' problem and responsibility to overthrow their government and not ours, so we can just safely express our outrage on the Internet from a distance and probably forget about it in a couple of days, if not by tonight.",
">\n\nUs? I'm living this shit who's gonna forget about this tomorrow? Is this sarcasm what kind of fucked up comment is this?",
">\n\nIt's a statement on a sad reality. There hasn't been a push for intervention from other countries to help Iran depose this blatantly corrupt government so it remains Iran's problem. Will this current outrage galvanize the people or further dissuade them? The turnout for the recent riots was fiery but far from a majority of the Iranian people, so I'm leaning towards the latter. Other countries have thus far remained uninvolved, and why would they get involved? This is Iran's fight. It's the Iranian people's job now to grow a spine and overthrow these bastards. They have to want change, elsewise it would be forced on them by whoever intercedes on their behalf.\nMillions of redditors are responding right now with bitter outrage from their L-shaped couches. We're not part of the revolution. Barring some kind of war with Israel which would be a worst-case scenario for the Supreme Bitch, this remains an Iranian issue and only an Iranian issue.",
">\n\nProblem is whenever countries DO get involved then everyone attacks them for butting their heads in where they don't belong so it deters that kind of response in future. Why bother trying to help if you're just going to be villainised for it?",
">\n\n\"Those poor people, why doesn't somebody do something to help them??\" \n--- and simultaneously ---\n\"How dare you interfere with another country's government or their self-determination!!\"\nIt's infuriating.\nFWIW, I'm on the side of strong covert intervention, including funding and supplying revolutionaries to overthrow their government, but I'm sure I'm in the minority.",
">\n\nYeah this has been used to install business friendly dictators in other countries for decades. The Iranian people need to decide if they are gonna put up with this or not",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nNew Delhi, Jan 31: Norway-based Iran Human Rights has warned the global community of the worsening human rights conditions in Iran.\nThese human rights organizations have accused the Islamic regime of Iran of using capital punishment as an instrument of intimidation.\nIslamic regime of Iran knows how to use the State machinery to suppress the protests and that is how the 55 executions have happened without following any due process or the principles of natural justice.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: protests^#1 Rights^#2 year^#3 Iran^#4 execution^#5",
">\n\nso sad. there are probably what, 10% religious lunatics in iran yet they have the entire country hostage. \nmake iran persia again.",
">\n\nthey have banned me in /r/iran for posting this in their sub. Think they are also there on Reddit. you cannot ignore a consolidated minority's strength. Nazis were outnumbered by the average folks but you know what they did.",
">\n\nr/Iran has been like that since the beginning of the protests, everything gets posted to r/NewIran now.",
">\n\nThis sickens me. Fuck all religions that try to manipulate and kill people for something as simple as wanting to be free from oppression.",
">\n\nWhich ones don't?",
">\n\nWhat the Iranian government doesn't understand is that every time they execute a protestor, it gets worse for them.",
">\n\nAnd what you don't understand is that the Iranian government doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks of them executing protestors. \nThey are a pack of barbaric monsters without a collective humane conscience and will keep doing so unless there is military intervention from the outside and sadly nobody is going anywhere near that hornet's nest anytime soon.",
">\n\nHis point still stands tho whether the Iranian government gives a fuck or not.",
">\n\nPeaceful revolutions are sometimes possible, but not here and not now. In the end, Iran will be a sister to Afghanistan.",
">\n\nProtests wont have any effect on them. Revolt or accept their shitty rule.",
">\n\nI'm starting to think Iran might be a giant shit hole",
">\n\nNo. \nThey have a horrendous ruling regime, like much of the world. And a portion of the population are violent and ignorant and support what the regime does, also like much of the world. Otherwise, the people are mostly like people everywhere, they want to be safe, happy and relatively free. \nAnd the country itself, geographically, has many absolutely beautiful areas.",
">\n\nInterested in how reputable the journalism at oneindia is. Anyone from India with some insight?",
">\n\nHope and pray for the Islamic regime of Iran to get executed soon.",
">\n\nI'm absolutely not surprised at the barbarism of this Iranian regime. After all the senior leaders in Iran were the ones using children armed with plastic keys as meat shields against dug in Iraqi positions and to clear minefields in the 80's.",
">\n\nWhen has Iran not been a human right crisis?",
">\n\n1946-1953, when Iran was forced to become a parliamentary monarchy (instead of a autocratic one) after the USSR-UK invasion and occupation during WW2\nLasted until the USA-UK (again) deposed the prime-minister and reinstated the Shah as autocratic, because the PM wanted to nationalize the oil industry then mostly owned by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company.",
">\n\nWeak, pathetic, and abhorrent.",
">\n\nIranians are sick in their heads. They have, by and far, the most reported executions every year.\nThey are also complete heathens for choosing to execute people with the most painful hanging methods available by using cranes and drop floors.\nThe movie \"There Is No Evil / Sheytan Vojud Nadarad\" by director Mohammad Rasoulof shows what life is like in Iran under the perpetual specter of death by execution. It's quite sobering.\nI want to be supportive of the movement but the protests should be about ending their savagery towards their own people ffs. It's like they are completely missing the boat. They are so fucked in their heads they don't even see the executions of their own people as the primary issue that should be driving their protests!",
">\n\nAnother good example of what the 2nd amendment protects us from...",
">\n\nPretty sure the US gov would never do something like that to their people even if they don’t own guns",
">\n\nPretty sure it’s best not to blindly trust government.",
">\n\nI didn’t say we should blindly trust them, but the US have a solid constitution they can’t just ignore it and go full dictatorship.",
">\n\nIf Trump gets elected again he'll probably try to make up some bullshit excuse to declare emergency powers and dissolve the constitution... he's already called for it to be terminated...",
">\n\nSomehow these weirdos always seem to come back to trump.\nI’ll tell you this, my life was much more manageable under Trump than Biden, but as long as weirdos feel like they are protected then I guess the hardships of thousands of families don’t matter at all.",
">\n\nI’m not american but this obsession with trump is also so weird to me. Is it only on reddit?",
">\n\nNo, it’s because he’s a literal fascist in-the-making",
">\n\nThat’s unjust fuel for a wildfire. It’s not a deterrent as much as it is shit inspiration. Keep up your fight.",
">\n\nCan you have a human rights crisis if you have no rights?",
">\n\nBarbaric primitive state",
">\n\nExecute them back.",
">\n\nWhat they need is weapon. You cant peacefully overthrow a barbaric regime who gives no f*ck about their citizens’s opinions.",
">\n\nGotta get some weapons into the hands of the Iranian resistance so that they can fight back.",
">\n\nThe Iranian government is disgusting. What pathetic and sensitive babies. I truly hope the citizens take some knowledge from Italy and execute the government officials publicly."
] |
This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.
Remember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not "thoughts had in the shower!"
(For an explanation of what a "showerthought" is, please read this page.)
Rule-breaking posts may result in bans. | [] |
>
Perhaps in your local region, sure.
There are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans."
] |
>
they’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens."
] |
>
If women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence"
] |
>
Maybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too."
] |
>
Dead and buried | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”."
] |
>
Maybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried"
] |
>
Can't argue his point so you attack him? | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”."
] |
>
where's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?! | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?"
] |
>
as a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️
it's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!"
] |
>
What’s your squat PB? | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol"
] |
>
175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press
pretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha
edit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?"
] |
>
Wow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.
Congratulations!!! | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts"
] |
>
thank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger! | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!"
] |
>
A locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.
Don't forget to do your core work! 😉 | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!"
] |
>
That was a great read thank you for sharing | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉"
] |
>
This is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.
Not to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing"
] |
>
Except that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature."
] |
>
You comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people."
] |
>
damn show me where? | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports."
] |
>
“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time.
lol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?"
] |
>
Biological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary."
] |
>
uncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why? | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal."
] |
>
Because it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?"
] |
>
“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women."
] |
>
I don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.
I'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.
Check any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.
This is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.
People will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.
You could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.
So when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way"
] |
>
Then why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes? | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength."
] |
>
Mostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.
But also because to have a top record "obliterated" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.
Now, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.
The real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?"
] |
>
20 international sports titles are held by transwomen
Which ones? | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete."
] |
>
It is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this.
I actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?"
] |
>
its more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.
do we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?
There are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as "fair" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the "fair" position for competition is for each etc.
We cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you."
] |
>
No one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will "flop" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation.
So despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman."
] |
>
> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?
nowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.
Its the same reason a lot of "separate but equal" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport? | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports."
] |
>
I think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men) | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?"
] |
>
Yeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)"
] |
>
there's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous."
] |
>
I mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now? | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids"
] |
>
Just as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?"
] |
>
Yeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling."
] |
>
Do men not beat other men by 3 circuits? | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time"
] |
>
They do | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?"
] |
>
Fucking hell what’s the point | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do"
] |
>
Well, the point is to run fast in a circle.
Most people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point"
] |
>
when women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered."
] |
>
Sorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women."
] |
>
They are just normal women after the transition after all. Excluding them for being trans as being "unfair" would be the same as excloding POCs becausr they are boult a tiny bit different. I actually never heared anyobe say that blacks should be banned from running because they tend to be faster. Why do people that don't know anything about the sports or about being transgender are always the loudest? | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women.",
">\n\nSorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall."
] |
>
Well, it's pretty unfair when a grown biological male who's been a "woman" for all of two years joins a sports team and starts breaking records. Left-wingers don't want to hear that because they've been taught to be inclusive at all costs - even if it kills them - but it's true. They can either try and figure that out or they can plug their ears and go "la la la la la la". Choice is theirs. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women.",
">\n\nSorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall.",
">\n\nThey are just normal women after the transition after all. Excluding them for being trans as being \"unfair\" would be the same as excloding POCs becausr they are boult a tiny bit different. I actually never heared anyobe say that blacks should be banned from running because they tend to be faster. Why do people that don't know anything about the sports or about being transgender are always the loudest?"
] |
>
What example are you referring to? | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women.",
">\n\nSorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall.",
">\n\nThey are just normal women after the transition after all. Excluding them for being trans as being \"unfair\" would be the same as excloding POCs becausr they are boult a tiny bit different. I actually never heared anyobe say that blacks should be banned from running because they tend to be faster. Why do people that don't know anything about the sports or about being transgender are always the loudest?",
">\n\nWell, it's pretty unfair when a grown biological male who's been a \"woman\" for all of two years joins a sports team and starts breaking records. Left-wingers don't want to hear that because they've been taught to be inclusive at all costs - even if it kills them - but it's true. They can either try and figure that out or they can plug their ears and go \"la la la la la la\". Choice is theirs."
] |
>
Andraya Yearwood and Terry Miller, Lia Thomas, Laurel Hubbard, Mary Gregory, Rachel McKinnon, Tifanny Abreu, and CeCé Telfer just to name a few. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women.",
">\n\nSorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall.",
">\n\nThey are just normal women after the transition after all. Excluding them for being trans as being \"unfair\" would be the same as excloding POCs becausr they are boult a tiny bit different. I actually never heared anyobe say that blacks should be banned from running because they tend to be faster. Why do people that don't know anything about the sports or about being transgender are always the loudest?",
">\n\nWell, it's pretty unfair when a grown biological male who's been a \"woman\" for all of two years joins a sports team and starts breaking records. Left-wingers don't want to hear that because they've been taught to be inclusive at all costs - even if it kills them - but it's true. They can either try and figure that out or they can plug their ears and go \"la la la la la la\". Choice is theirs.",
">\n\nWhat example are you referring to?"
] |
>
As a non US citizen are the organisations these people play in left-wing? Or are they in left-wing states? Who made the decision?
Because as a lefty I don't understand how this is allowed? | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women.",
">\n\nSorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall.",
">\n\nThey are just normal women after the transition after all. Excluding them for being trans as being \"unfair\" would be the same as excloding POCs becausr they are boult a tiny bit different. I actually never heared anyobe say that blacks should be banned from running because they tend to be faster. Why do people that don't know anything about the sports or about being transgender are always the loudest?",
">\n\nWell, it's pretty unfair when a grown biological male who's been a \"woman\" for all of two years joins a sports team and starts breaking records. Left-wingers don't want to hear that because they've been taught to be inclusive at all costs - even if it kills them - but it's true. They can either try and figure that out or they can plug their ears and go \"la la la la la la\". Choice is theirs.",
">\n\nWhat example are you referring to?",
">\n\nAndraya Yearwood and Terry Miller, Lia Thomas, Laurel Hubbard, Mary Gregory, Rachel McKinnon, Tifanny Abreu, and CeCé Telfer just to name a few."
] |
>
Many of them play for schools and colleges, who, I believe, set their own standards. I'm not going to pretend to know everything about the issue; I just know that I've seen multiple trans athletes smash long standing women's records and it's usually reported as a positive in the media. The general rule, I think, is that one has to be on hormones for a certain number of years before they can compete, but that absolutely does not level the playing field; they still have an inherent biological advantage over cis women. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women.",
">\n\nSorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall.",
">\n\nThey are just normal women after the transition after all. Excluding them for being trans as being \"unfair\" would be the same as excloding POCs becausr they are boult a tiny bit different. I actually never heared anyobe say that blacks should be banned from running because they tend to be faster. Why do people that don't know anything about the sports or about being transgender are always the loudest?",
">\n\nWell, it's pretty unfair when a grown biological male who's been a \"woman\" for all of two years joins a sports team and starts breaking records. Left-wingers don't want to hear that because they've been taught to be inclusive at all costs - even if it kills them - but it's true. They can either try and figure that out or they can plug their ears and go \"la la la la la la\". Choice is theirs.",
">\n\nWhat example are you referring to?",
">\n\nAndraya Yearwood and Terry Miller, Lia Thomas, Laurel Hubbard, Mary Gregory, Rachel McKinnon, Tifanny Abreu, and CeCé Telfer just to name a few.",
">\n\nAs a non US citizen are the organisations these people play in left-wing? Or are they in left-wing states? Who made the decision?\nBecause as a lefty I don't understand how this is allowed?"
] |
>
I lean pretty right-wing (though I don't consider myself a Republican or a conservative) but I have no problem with trans people. If they want to play sports, they shouldn't have some jackboot bullshit preventing them. However, it's blatantly obvious that, in general, putting them on a woman's team is often not the right answer. It's like letting one or two men compete while pumped full of steroids. We don't allow that...because it gives that competitor an unfair advantage over everyone else. We allow it in this case because the American left literally puts inclusivity above all else, even basic facts. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women.",
">\n\nSorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall.",
">\n\nThey are just normal women after the transition after all. Excluding them for being trans as being \"unfair\" would be the same as excloding POCs becausr they are boult a tiny bit different. I actually never heared anyobe say that blacks should be banned from running because they tend to be faster. Why do people that don't know anything about the sports or about being transgender are always the loudest?",
">\n\nWell, it's pretty unfair when a grown biological male who's been a \"woman\" for all of two years joins a sports team and starts breaking records. Left-wingers don't want to hear that because they've been taught to be inclusive at all costs - even if it kills them - but it's true. They can either try and figure that out or they can plug their ears and go \"la la la la la la\". Choice is theirs.",
">\n\nWhat example are you referring to?",
">\n\nAndraya Yearwood and Terry Miller, Lia Thomas, Laurel Hubbard, Mary Gregory, Rachel McKinnon, Tifanny Abreu, and CeCé Telfer just to name a few.",
">\n\nAs a non US citizen are the organisations these people play in left-wing? Or are they in left-wing states? Who made the decision?\nBecause as a lefty I don't understand how this is allowed?",
">\n\nMany of them play for schools and colleges, who, I believe, set their own standards. I'm not going to pretend to know everything about the issue; I just know that I've seen multiple trans athletes smash long standing women's records and it's usually reported as a positive in the media. The general rule, I think, is that one has to be on hormones for a certain number of years before they can compete, but that absolutely does not level the playing field; they still have an inherent biological advantage over cis women."
] |
>
So are you saying womens competetive sports are boring or why do one seem to care? | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women.",
">\n\nSorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall.",
">\n\nThey are just normal women after the transition after all. Excluding them for being trans as being \"unfair\" would be the same as excloding POCs becausr they are boult a tiny bit different. I actually never heared anyobe say that blacks should be banned from running because they tend to be faster. Why do people that don't know anything about the sports or about being transgender are always the loudest?",
">\n\nWell, it's pretty unfair when a grown biological male who's been a \"woman\" for all of two years joins a sports team and starts breaking records. Left-wingers don't want to hear that because they've been taught to be inclusive at all costs - even if it kills them - but it's true. They can either try and figure that out or they can plug their ears and go \"la la la la la la\". Choice is theirs.",
">\n\nWhat example are you referring to?",
">\n\nAndraya Yearwood and Terry Miller, Lia Thomas, Laurel Hubbard, Mary Gregory, Rachel McKinnon, Tifanny Abreu, and CeCé Telfer just to name a few.",
">\n\nAs a non US citizen are the organisations these people play in left-wing? Or are they in left-wing states? Who made the decision?\nBecause as a lefty I don't understand how this is allowed?",
">\n\nMany of them play for schools and colleges, who, I believe, set their own standards. I'm not going to pretend to know everything about the issue; I just know that I've seen multiple trans athletes smash long standing women's records and it's usually reported as a positive in the media. The general rule, I think, is that one has to be on hormones for a certain number of years before they can compete, but that absolutely does not level the playing field; they still have an inherent biological advantage over cis women.",
">\n\nI lean pretty right-wing (though I don't consider myself a Republican or a conservative) but I have no problem with trans people. If they want to play sports, they shouldn't have some jackboot bullshit preventing them. However, it's blatantly obvious that, in general, putting them on a woman's team is often not the right answer. It's like letting one or two men compete while pumped full of steroids. We don't allow that...because it gives that competitor an unfair advantage over everyone else. We allow it in this case because the American left literally puts inclusivity above all else, even basic facts."
] |
>
You're not wrong but you stepped into a huge minefield with that one | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women.",
">\n\nSorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall.",
">\n\nThey are just normal women after the transition after all. Excluding them for being trans as being \"unfair\" would be the same as excloding POCs becausr they are boult a tiny bit different. I actually never heared anyobe say that blacks should be banned from running because they tend to be faster. Why do people that don't know anything about the sports or about being transgender are always the loudest?",
">\n\nWell, it's pretty unfair when a grown biological male who's been a \"woman\" for all of two years joins a sports team and starts breaking records. Left-wingers don't want to hear that because they've been taught to be inclusive at all costs - even if it kills them - but it's true. They can either try and figure that out or they can plug their ears and go \"la la la la la la\". Choice is theirs.",
">\n\nWhat example are you referring to?",
">\n\nAndraya Yearwood and Terry Miller, Lia Thomas, Laurel Hubbard, Mary Gregory, Rachel McKinnon, Tifanny Abreu, and CeCé Telfer just to name a few.",
">\n\nAs a non US citizen are the organisations these people play in left-wing? Or are they in left-wing states? Who made the decision?\nBecause as a lefty I don't understand how this is allowed?",
">\n\nMany of them play for schools and colleges, who, I believe, set their own standards. I'm not going to pretend to know everything about the issue; I just know that I've seen multiple trans athletes smash long standing women's records and it's usually reported as a positive in the media. The general rule, I think, is that one has to be on hormones for a certain number of years before they can compete, but that absolutely does not level the playing field; they still have an inherent biological advantage over cis women.",
">\n\nI lean pretty right-wing (though I don't consider myself a Republican or a conservative) but I have no problem with trans people. If they want to play sports, they shouldn't have some jackboot bullshit preventing them. However, it's blatantly obvious that, in general, putting them on a woman's team is often not the right answer. It's like letting one or two men compete while pumped full of steroids. We don't allow that...because it gives that competitor an unfair advantage over everyone else. We allow it in this case because the American left literally puts inclusivity above all else, even basic facts.",
">\n\nSo are you saying womens competetive sports are boring or why do one seem to care?"
] |
>
This is kind of a dumb post, people don’t care about woman’s sports more now than they did, people care about fairness in competition. It’s perfectly valid to say you don’t think genetic females should compete against genetic males, even if you don’t personally watch the sport. I don’t care about nascar at all, but if they suddenly started allowing some racers to use rocket powered jet-cars to race against standard cars, I’d speak up and say it’s not fair too lol | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women.",
">\n\nSorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall.",
">\n\nThey are just normal women after the transition after all. Excluding them for being trans as being \"unfair\" would be the same as excloding POCs becausr they are boult a tiny bit different. I actually never heared anyobe say that blacks should be banned from running because they tend to be faster. Why do people that don't know anything about the sports or about being transgender are always the loudest?",
">\n\nWell, it's pretty unfair when a grown biological male who's been a \"woman\" for all of two years joins a sports team and starts breaking records. Left-wingers don't want to hear that because they've been taught to be inclusive at all costs - even if it kills them - but it's true. They can either try and figure that out or they can plug their ears and go \"la la la la la la\". Choice is theirs.",
">\n\nWhat example are you referring to?",
">\n\nAndraya Yearwood and Terry Miller, Lia Thomas, Laurel Hubbard, Mary Gregory, Rachel McKinnon, Tifanny Abreu, and CeCé Telfer just to name a few.",
">\n\nAs a non US citizen are the organisations these people play in left-wing? Or are they in left-wing states? Who made the decision?\nBecause as a lefty I don't understand how this is allowed?",
">\n\nMany of them play for schools and colleges, who, I believe, set their own standards. I'm not going to pretend to know everything about the issue; I just know that I've seen multiple trans athletes smash long standing women's records and it's usually reported as a positive in the media. The general rule, I think, is that one has to be on hormones for a certain number of years before they can compete, but that absolutely does not level the playing field; they still have an inherent biological advantage over cis women.",
">\n\nI lean pretty right-wing (though I don't consider myself a Republican or a conservative) but I have no problem with trans people. If they want to play sports, they shouldn't have some jackboot bullshit preventing them. However, it's blatantly obvious that, in general, putting them on a woman's team is often not the right answer. It's like letting one or two men compete while pumped full of steroids. We don't allow that...because it gives that competitor an unfair advantage over everyone else. We allow it in this case because the American left literally puts inclusivity above all else, even basic facts.",
">\n\nSo are you saying womens competetive sports are boring or why do one seem to care?",
">\n\nYou're not wrong but you stepped into a huge minefield with that one"
] |
>
Genetic women have been excloded from female sports for having a naturally! high testosterone level because it would be "unfair" to let them compete against other women.
Trans women are not superior, if they were, then they'd always win, wouldn't they? | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women.",
">\n\nSorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall.",
">\n\nThey are just normal women after the transition after all. Excluding them for being trans as being \"unfair\" would be the same as excloding POCs becausr they are boult a tiny bit different. I actually never heared anyobe say that blacks should be banned from running because they tend to be faster. Why do people that don't know anything about the sports or about being transgender are always the loudest?",
">\n\nWell, it's pretty unfair when a grown biological male who's been a \"woman\" for all of two years joins a sports team and starts breaking records. Left-wingers don't want to hear that because they've been taught to be inclusive at all costs - even if it kills them - but it's true. They can either try and figure that out or they can plug their ears and go \"la la la la la la\". Choice is theirs.",
">\n\nWhat example are you referring to?",
">\n\nAndraya Yearwood and Terry Miller, Lia Thomas, Laurel Hubbard, Mary Gregory, Rachel McKinnon, Tifanny Abreu, and CeCé Telfer just to name a few.",
">\n\nAs a non US citizen are the organisations these people play in left-wing? Or are they in left-wing states? Who made the decision?\nBecause as a lefty I don't understand how this is allowed?",
">\n\nMany of them play for schools and colleges, who, I believe, set their own standards. I'm not going to pretend to know everything about the issue; I just know that I've seen multiple trans athletes smash long standing women's records and it's usually reported as a positive in the media. The general rule, I think, is that one has to be on hormones for a certain number of years before they can compete, but that absolutely does not level the playing field; they still have an inherent biological advantage over cis women.",
">\n\nI lean pretty right-wing (though I don't consider myself a Republican or a conservative) but I have no problem with trans people. If they want to play sports, they shouldn't have some jackboot bullshit preventing them. However, it's blatantly obvious that, in general, putting them on a woman's team is often not the right answer. It's like letting one or two men compete while pumped full of steroids. We don't allow that...because it gives that competitor an unfair advantage over everyone else. We allow it in this case because the American left literally puts inclusivity above all else, even basic facts.",
">\n\nSo are you saying womens competetive sports are boring or why do one seem to care?",
">\n\nYou're not wrong but you stepped into a huge minefield with that one",
">\n\nThis is kind of a dumb post, people don’t care about woman’s sports more now than they did, people care about fairness in competition. It’s perfectly valid to say you don’t think genetic females should compete against genetic males, even if you don’t personally watch the sport. I don’t care about nascar at all, but if they suddenly started allowing some racers to use rocket powered jet-cars to race against standard cars, I’d speak up and say it’s not fair too lol"
] |
>
Do you mean genetic woman on testosterone supplements? Because that’s pretty agreed that you can’t do that in sports. It’s absolutely unfair for a person born female to chemically change their bodies and still compete against natural females. It goes both ways, both are unfair, how is there a debate? | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women.",
">\n\nSorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall.",
">\n\nThey are just normal women after the transition after all. Excluding them for being trans as being \"unfair\" would be the same as excloding POCs becausr they are boult a tiny bit different. I actually never heared anyobe say that blacks should be banned from running because they tend to be faster. Why do people that don't know anything about the sports or about being transgender are always the loudest?",
">\n\nWell, it's pretty unfair when a grown biological male who's been a \"woman\" for all of two years joins a sports team and starts breaking records. Left-wingers don't want to hear that because they've been taught to be inclusive at all costs - even if it kills them - but it's true. They can either try and figure that out or they can plug their ears and go \"la la la la la la\". Choice is theirs.",
">\n\nWhat example are you referring to?",
">\n\nAndraya Yearwood and Terry Miller, Lia Thomas, Laurel Hubbard, Mary Gregory, Rachel McKinnon, Tifanny Abreu, and CeCé Telfer just to name a few.",
">\n\nAs a non US citizen are the organisations these people play in left-wing? Or are they in left-wing states? Who made the decision?\nBecause as a lefty I don't understand how this is allowed?",
">\n\nMany of them play for schools and colleges, who, I believe, set their own standards. I'm not going to pretend to know everything about the issue; I just know that I've seen multiple trans athletes smash long standing women's records and it's usually reported as a positive in the media. The general rule, I think, is that one has to be on hormones for a certain number of years before they can compete, but that absolutely does not level the playing field; they still have an inherent biological advantage over cis women.",
">\n\nI lean pretty right-wing (though I don't consider myself a Republican or a conservative) but I have no problem with trans people. If they want to play sports, they shouldn't have some jackboot bullshit preventing them. However, it's blatantly obvious that, in general, putting them on a woman's team is often not the right answer. It's like letting one or two men compete while pumped full of steroids. We don't allow that...because it gives that competitor an unfair advantage over everyone else. We allow it in this case because the American left literally puts inclusivity above all else, even basic facts.",
">\n\nSo are you saying womens competetive sports are boring or why do one seem to care?",
">\n\nYou're not wrong but you stepped into a huge minefield with that one",
">\n\nThis is kind of a dumb post, people don’t care about woman’s sports more now than they did, people care about fairness in competition. It’s perfectly valid to say you don’t think genetic females should compete against genetic males, even if you don’t personally watch the sport. I don’t care about nascar at all, but if they suddenly started allowing some racers to use rocket powered jet-cars to race against standard cars, I’d speak up and say it’s not fair too lol",
">\n\nGenetic women have been excloded from female sports for having a naturally! high testosterone level because it would be \"unfair\" to let them compete against other women.\nTrans women are not superior, if they were, then they'd always win, wouldn't they?"
] |
>
Wow this is an ignorant thought to post. Cis women cared about their sports. I personally love HS girls basketball and college volleyball and Women’s pro occer. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women.",
">\n\nSorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall.",
">\n\nThey are just normal women after the transition after all. Excluding them for being trans as being \"unfair\" would be the same as excloding POCs becausr they are boult a tiny bit different. I actually never heared anyobe say that blacks should be banned from running because they tend to be faster. Why do people that don't know anything about the sports or about being transgender are always the loudest?",
">\n\nWell, it's pretty unfair when a grown biological male who's been a \"woman\" for all of two years joins a sports team and starts breaking records. Left-wingers don't want to hear that because they've been taught to be inclusive at all costs - even if it kills them - but it's true. They can either try and figure that out or they can plug their ears and go \"la la la la la la\". Choice is theirs.",
">\n\nWhat example are you referring to?",
">\n\nAndraya Yearwood and Terry Miller, Lia Thomas, Laurel Hubbard, Mary Gregory, Rachel McKinnon, Tifanny Abreu, and CeCé Telfer just to name a few.",
">\n\nAs a non US citizen are the organisations these people play in left-wing? Or are they in left-wing states? Who made the decision?\nBecause as a lefty I don't understand how this is allowed?",
">\n\nMany of them play for schools and colleges, who, I believe, set their own standards. I'm not going to pretend to know everything about the issue; I just know that I've seen multiple trans athletes smash long standing women's records and it's usually reported as a positive in the media. The general rule, I think, is that one has to be on hormones for a certain number of years before they can compete, but that absolutely does not level the playing field; they still have an inherent biological advantage over cis women.",
">\n\nI lean pretty right-wing (though I don't consider myself a Republican or a conservative) but I have no problem with trans people. If they want to play sports, they shouldn't have some jackboot bullshit preventing them. However, it's blatantly obvious that, in general, putting them on a woman's team is often not the right answer. It's like letting one or two men compete while pumped full of steroids. We don't allow that...because it gives that competitor an unfair advantage over everyone else. We allow it in this case because the American left literally puts inclusivity above all else, even basic facts.",
">\n\nSo are you saying womens competetive sports are boring or why do one seem to care?",
">\n\nYou're not wrong but you stepped into a huge minefield with that one",
">\n\nThis is kind of a dumb post, people don’t care about woman’s sports more now than they did, people care about fairness in competition. It’s perfectly valid to say you don’t think genetic females should compete against genetic males, even if you don’t personally watch the sport. I don’t care about nascar at all, but if they suddenly started allowing some racers to use rocket powered jet-cars to race against standard cars, I’d speak up and say it’s not fair too lol",
">\n\nGenetic women have been excloded from female sports for having a naturally! high testosterone level because it would be \"unfair\" to let them compete against other women.\nTrans women are not superior, if they were, then they'd always win, wouldn't they?",
">\n\nDo you mean genetic woman on testosterone supplements? Because that’s pretty agreed that you can’t do that in sports. It’s absolutely unfair for a person born female to chemically change their bodies and still compete against natural females. It goes both ways, both are unfair, how is there a debate?"
] |
>
Women’s beach volleyball and women’s tennis excluded, women’s sports are boring as shit. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women.",
">\n\nSorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall.",
">\n\nThey are just normal women after the transition after all. Excluding them for being trans as being \"unfair\" would be the same as excloding POCs becausr they are boult a tiny bit different. I actually never heared anyobe say that blacks should be banned from running because they tend to be faster. Why do people that don't know anything about the sports or about being transgender are always the loudest?",
">\n\nWell, it's pretty unfair when a grown biological male who's been a \"woman\" for all of two years joins a sports team and starts breaking records. Left-wingers don't want to hear that because they've been taught to be inclusive at all costs - even if it kills them - but it's true. They can either try and figure that out or they can plug their ears and go \"la la la la la la\". Choice is theirs.",
">\n\nWhat example are you referring to?",
">\n\nAndraya Yearwood and Terry Miller, Lia Thomas, Laurel Hubbard, Mary Gregory, Rachel McKinnon, Tifanny Abreu, and CeCé Telfer just to name a few.",
">\n\nAs a non US citizen are the organisations these people play in left-wing? Or are they in left-wing states? Who made the decision?\nBecause as a lefty I don't understand how this is allowed?",
">\n\nMany of them play for schools and colleges, who, I believe, set their own standards. I'm not going to pretend to know everything about the issue; I just know that I've seen multiple trans athletes smash long standing women's records and it's usually reported as a positive in the media. The general rule, I think, is that one has to be on hormones for a certain number of years before they can compete, but that absolutely does not level the playing field; they still have an inherent biological advantage over cis women.",
">\n\nI lean pretty right-wing (though I don't consider myself a Republican or a conservative) but I have no problem with trans people. If they want to play sports, they shouldn't have some jackboot bullshit preventing them. However, it's blatantly obvious that, in general, putting them on a woman's team is often not the right answer. It's like letting one or two men compete while pumped full of steroids. We don't allow that...because it gives that competitor an unfair advantage over everyone else. We allow it in this case because the American left literally puts inclusivity above all else, even basic facts.",
">\n\nSo are you saying womens competetive sports are boring or why do one seem to care?",
">\n\nYou're not wrong but you stepped into a huge minefield with that one",
">\n\nThis is kind of a dumb post, people don’t care about woman’s sports more now than they did, people care about fairness in competition. It’s perfectly valid to say you don’t think genetic females should compete against genetic males, even if you don’t personally watch the sport. I don’t care about nascar at all, but if they suddenly started allowing some racers to use rocket powered jet-cars to race against standard cars, I’d speak up and say it’s not fair too lol",
">\n\nGenetic women have been excloded from female sports for having a naturally! high testosterone level because it would be \"unfair\" to let them compete against other women.\nTrans women are not superior, if they were, then they'd always win, wouldn't they?",
">\n\nDo you mean genetic woman on testosterone supplements? Because that’s pretty agreed that you can’t do that in sports. It’s absolutely unfair for a person born female to chemically change their bodies and still compete against natural females. It goes both ways, both are unfair, how is there a debate?",
">\n\nWow this is an ignorant thought to post. Cis women cared about their sports. I personally love HS girls basketball and college volleyball and Women’s pro occer."
] |
>
This just isn’t true at all and if you think so you live in a bubble that probably doesn’t care about sports at all. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women.",
">\n\nSorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall.",
">\n\nThey are just normal women after the transition after all. Excluding them for being trans as being \"unfair\" would be the same as excloding POCs becausr they are boult a tiny bit different. I actually never heared anyobe say that blacks should be banned from running because they tend to be faster. Why do people that don't know anything about the sports or about being transgender are always the loudest?",
">\n\nWell, it's pretty unfair when a grown biological male who's been a \"woman\" for all of two years joins a sports team and starts breaking records. Left-wingers don't want to hear that because they've been taught to be inclusive at all costs - even if it kills them - but it's true. They can either try and figure that out or they can plug their ears and go \"la la la la la la\". Choice is theirs.",
">\n\nWhat example are you referring to?",
">\n\nAndraya Yearwood and Terry Miller, Lia Thomas, Laurel Hubbard, Mary Gregory, Rachel McKinnon, Tifanny Abreu, and CeCé Telfer just to name a few.",
">\n\nAs a non US citizen are the organisations these people play in left-wing? Or are they in left-wing states? Who made the decision?\nBecause as a lefty I don't understand how this is allowed?",
">\n\nMany of them play for schools and colleges, who, I believe, set their own standards. I'm not going to pretend to know everything about the issue; I just know that I've seen multiple trans athletes smash long standing women's records and it's usually reported as a positive in the media. The general rule, I think, is that one has to be on hormones for a certain number of years before they can compete, but that absolutely does not level the playing field; they still have an inherent biological advantage over cis women.",
">\n\nI lean pretty right-wing (though I don't consider myself a Republican or a conservative) but I have no problem with trans people. If they want to play sports, they shouldn't have some jackboot bullshit preventing them. However, it's blatantly obvious that, in general, putting them on a woman's team is often not the right answer. It's like letting one or two men compete while pumped full of steroids. We don't allow that...because it gives that competitor an unfair advantage over everyone else. We allow it in this case because the American left literally puts inclusivity above all else, even basic facts.",
">\n\nSo are you saying womens competetive sports are boring or why do one seem to care?",
">\n\nYou're not wrong but you stepped into a huge minefield with that one",
">\n\nThis is kind of a dumb post, people don’t care about woman’s sports more now than they did, people care about fairness in competition. It’s perfectly valid to say you don’t think genetic females should compete against genetic males, even if you don’t personally watch the sport. I don’t care about nascar at all, but if they suddenly started allowing some racers to use rocket powered jet-cars to race against standard cars, I’d speak up and say it’s not fair too lol",
">\n\nGenetic women have been excloded from female sports for having a naturally! high testosterone level because it would be \"unfair\" to let them compete against other women.\nTrans women are not superior, if they were, then they'd always win, wouldn't they?",
">\n\nDo you mean genetic woman on testosterone supplements? Because that’s pretty agreed that you can’t do that in sports. It’s absolutely unfair for a person born female to chemically change their bodies and still compete against natural females. It goes both ways, both are unfair, how is there a debate?",
">\n\nWow this is an ignorant thought to post. Cis women cared about their sports. I personally love HS girls basketball and college volleyball and Women’s pro occer.",
">\n\nWomen’s beach volleyball and women’s tennis excluded, women’s sports are boring as shit."
] |
>
Everyone is up in arms about the trans women that win. No one discusses the trans women that lose or are unsuccessful (which are undoubtedly more). | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women.",
">\n\nSorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall.",
">\n\nThey are just normal women after the transition after all. Excluding them for being trans as being \"unfair\" would be the same as excloding POCs becausr they are boult a tiny bit different. I actually never heared anyobe say that blacks should be banned from running because they tend to be faster. Why do people that don't know anything about the sports or about being transgender are always the loudest?",
">\n\nWell, it's pretty unfair when a grown biological male who's been a \"woman\" for all of two years joins a sports team and starts breaking records. Left-wingers don't want to hear that because they've been taught to be inclusive at all costs - even if it kills them - but it's true. They can either try and figure that out or they can plug their ears and go \"la la la la la la\". Choice is theirs.",
">\n\nWhat example are you referring to?",
">\n\nAndraya Yearwood and Terry Miller, Lia Thomas, Laurel Hubbard, Mary Gregory, Rachel McKinnon, Tifanny Abreu, and CeCé Telfer just to name a few.",
">\n\nAs a non US citizen are the organisations these people play in left-wing? Or are they in left-wing states? Who made the decision?\nBecause as a lefty I don't understand how this is allowed?",
">\n\nMany of them play for schools and colleges, who, I believe, set their own standards. I'm not going to pretend to know everything about the issue; I just know that I've seen multiple trans athletes smash long standing women's records and it's usually reported as a positive in the media. The general rule, I think, is that one has to be on hormones for a certain number of years before they can compete, but that absolutely does not level the playing field; they still have an inherent biological advantage over cis women.",
">\n\nI lean pretty right-wing (though I don't consider myself a Republican or a conservative) but I have no problem with trans people. If they want to play sports, they shouldn't have some jackboot bullshit preventing them. However, it's blatantly obvious that, in general, putting them on a woman's team is often not the right answer. It's like letting one or two men compete while pumped full of steroids. We don't allow that...because it gives that competitor an unfair advantage over everyone else. We allow it in this case because the American left literally puts inclusivity above all else, even basic facts.",
">\n\nSo are you saying womens competetive sports are boring or why do one seem to care?",
">\n\nYou're not wrong but you stepped into a huge minefield with that one",
">\n\nThis is kind of a dumb post, people don’t care about woman’s sports more now than they did, people care about fairness in competition. It’s perfectly valid to say you don’t think genetic females should compete against genetic males, even if you don’t personally watch the sport. I don’t care about nascar at all, but if they suddenly started allowing some racers to use rocket powered jet-cars to race against standard cars, I’d speak up and say it’s not fair too lol",
">\n\nGenetic women have been excloded from female sports for having a naturally! high testosterone level because it would be \"unfair\" to let them compete against other women.\nTrans women are not superior, if they were, then they'd always win, wouldn't they?",
">\n\nDo you mean genetic woman on testosterone supplements? Because that’s pretty agreed that you can’t do that in sports. It’s absolutely unfair for a person born female to chemically change their bodies and still compete against natural females. It goes both ways, both are unfair, how is there a debate?",
">\n\nWow this is an ignorant thought to post. Cis women cared about their sports. I personally love HS girls basketball and college volleyball and Women’s pro occer.",
">\n\nWomen’s beach volleyball and women’s tennis excluded, women’s sports are boring as shit.",
">\n\nThis just isn’t true at all and if you think so you live in a bubble that probably doesn’t care about sports at all."
] |
>
Lol I doubt it , also the most notable ones are usually people who transitioned while also being male athletes, not being good at all only to come to the female level and completely dominate. In all honesty this will probably make women’s sports more entertaining, however it will mainly consist of trans women while biological women get left behind. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women.",
">\n\nSorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall.",
">\n\nThey are just normal women after the transition after all. Excluding them for being trans as being \"unfair\" would be the same as excloding POCs becausr they are boult a tiny bit different. I actually never heared anyobe say that blacks should be banned from running because they tend to be faster. Why do people that don't know anything about the sports or about being transgender are always the loudest?",
">\n\nWell, it's pretty unfair when a grown biological male who's been a \"woman\" for all of two years joins a sports team and starts breaking records. Left-wingers don't want to hear that because they've been taught to be inclusive at all costs - even if it kills them - but it's true. They can either try and figure that out or they can plug their ears and go \"la la la la la la\". Choice is theirs.",
">\n\nWhat example are you referring to?",
">\n\nAndraya Yearwood and Terry Miller, Lia Thomas, Laurel Hubbard, Mary Gregory, Rachel McKinnon, Tifanny Abreu, and CeCé Telfer just to name a few.",
">\n\nAs a non US citizen are the organisations these people play in left-wing? Or are they in left-wing states? Who made the decision?\nBecause as a lefty I don't understand how this is allowed?",
">\n\nMany of them play for schools and colleges, who, I believe, set their own standards. I'm not going to pretend to know everything about the issue; I just know that I've seen multiple trans athletes smash long standing women's records and it's usually reported as a positive in the media. The general rule, I think, is that one has to be on hormones for a certain number of years before they can compete, but that absolutely does not level the playing field; they still have an inherent biological advantage over cis women.",
">\n\nI lean pretty right-wing (though I don't consider myself a Republican or a conservative) but I have no problem with trans people. If they want to play sports, they shouldn't have some jackboot bullshit preventing them. However, it's blatantly obvious that, in general, putting them on a woman's team is often not the right answer. It's like letting one or two men compete while pumped full of steroids. We don't allow that...because it gives that competitor an unfair advantage over everyone else. We allow it in this case because the American left literally puts inclusivity above all else, even basic facts.",
">\n\nSo are you saying womens competetive sports are boring or why do one seem to care?",
">\n\nYou're not wrong but you stepped into a huge minefield with that one",
">\n\nThis is kind of a dumb post, people don’t care about woman’s sports more now than they did, people care about fairness in competition. It’s perfectly valid to say you don’t think genetic females should compete against genetic males, even if you don’t personally watch the sport. I don’t care about nascar at all, but if they suddenly started allowing some racers to use rocket powered jet-cars to race against standard cars, I’d speak up and say it’s not fair too lol",
">\n\nGenetic women have been excloded from female sports for having a naturally! high testosterone level because it would be \"unfair\" to let them compete against other women.\nTrans women are not superior, if they were, then they'd always win, wouldn't they?",
">\n\nDo you mean genetic woman on testosterone supplements? Because that’s pretty agreed that you can’t do that in sports. It’s absolutely unfair for a person born female to chemically change their bodies and still compete against natural females. It goes both ways, both are unfair, how is there a debate?",
">\n\nWow this is an ignorant thought to post. Cis women cared about their sports. I personally love HS girls basketball and college volleyball and Women’s pro occer.",
">\n\nWomen’s beach volleyball and women’s tennis excluded, women’s sports are boring as shit.",
">\n\nThis just isn’t true at all and if you think so you live in a bubble that probably doesn’t care about sports at all.",
">\n\nEveryone is up in arms about the trans women that win. No one discusses the trans women that lose or are unsuccessful (which are undoubtedly more)."
] |
>
There hasn't actually been an increase of trans kids playing sports, just an increase in conservatives soiling themselves over it. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women.",
">\n\nSorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall.",
">\n\nThey are just normal women after the transition after all. Excluding them for being trans as being \"unfair\" would be the same as excloding POCs becausr they are boult a tiny bit different. I actually never heared anyobe say that blacks should be banned from running because they tend to be faster. Why do people that don't know anything about the sports or about being transgender are always the loudest?",
">\n\nWell, it's pretty unfair when a grown biological male who's been a \"woman\" for all of two years joins a sports team and starts breaking records. Left-wingers don't want to hear that because they've been taught to be inclusive at all costs - even if it kills them - but it's true. They can either try and figure that out or they can plug their ears and go \"la la la la la la\". Choice is theirs.",
">\n\nWhat example are you referring to?",
">\n\nAndraya Yearwood and Terry Miller, Lia Thomas, Laurel Hubbard, Mary Gregory, Rachel McKinnon, Tifanny Abreu, and CeCé Telfer just to name a few.",
">\n\nAs a non US citizen are the organisations these people play in left-wing? Or are they in left-wing states? Who made the decision?\nBecause as a lefty I don't understand how this is allowed?",
">\n\nMany of them play for schools and colleges, who, I believe, set their own standards. I'm not going to pretend to know everything about the issue; I just know that I've seen multiple trans athletes smash long standing women's records and it's usually reported as a positive in the media. The general rule, I think, is that one has to be on hormones for a certain number of years before they can compete, but that absolutely does not level the playing field; they still have an inherent biological advantage over cis women.",
">\n\nI lean pretty right-wing (though I don't consider myself a Republican or a conservative) but I have no problem with trans people. If they want to play sports, they shouldn't have some jackboot bullshit preventing them. However, it's blatantly obvious that, in general, putting them on a woman's team is often not the right answer. It's like letting one or two men compete while pumped full of steroids. We don't allow that...because it gives that competitor an unfair advantage over everyone else. We allow it in this case because the American left literally puts inclusivity above all else, even basic facts.",
">\n\nSo are you saying womens competetive sports are boring or why do one seem to care?",
">\n\nYou're not wrong but you stepped into a huge minefield with that one",
">\n\nThis is kind of a dumb post, people don’t care about woman’s sports more now than they did, people care about fairness in competition. It’s perfectly valid to say you don’t think genetic females should compete against genetic males, even if you don’t personally watch the sport. I don’t care about nascar at all, but if they suddenly started allowing some racers to use rocket powered jet-cars to race against standard cars, I’d speak up and say it’s not fair too lol",
">\n\nGenetic women have been excloded from female sports for having a naturally! high testosterone level because it would be \"unfair\" to let them compete against other women.\nTrans women are not superior, if they were, then they'd always win, wouldn't they?",
">\n\nDo you mean genetic woman on testosterone supplements? Because that’s pretty agreed that you can’t do that in sports. It’s absolutely unfair for a person born female to chemically change their bodies and still compete against natural females. It goes both ways, both are unfair, how is there a debate?",
">\n\nWow this is an ignorant thought to post. Cis women cared about their sports. I personally love HS girls basketball and college volleyball and Women’s pro occer.",
">\n\nWomen’s beach volleyball and women’s tennis excluded, women’s sports are boring as shit.",
">\n\nThis just isn’t true at all and if you think so you live in a bubble that probably doesn’t care about sports at all.",
">\n\nEveryone is up in arms about the trans women that win. No one discusses the trans women that lose or are unsuccessful (which are undoubtedly more).",
">\n\nLol I doubt it , also the most notable ones are usually people who transitioned while also being male athletes, not being good at all only to come to the female level and completely dominate. In all honesty this will probably make women’s sports more entertaining, however it will mainly consist of trans women while biological women get left behind."
] |
>
Maybe cause kids can’t transition until they’re 18 or 21 or whatever age you’re an adult in your country | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women.",
">\n\nSorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall.",
">\n\nThey are just normal women after the transition after all. Excluding them for being trans as being \"unfair\" would be the same as excloding POCs becausr they are boult a tiny bit different. I actually never heared anyobe say that blacks should be banned from running because they tend to be faster. Why do people that don't know anything about the sports or about being transgender are always the loudest?",
">\n\nWell, it's pretty unfair when a grown biological male who's been a \"woman\" for all of two years joins a sports team and starts breaking records. Left-wingers don't want to hear that because they've been taught to be inclusive at all costs - even if it kills them - but it's true. They can either try and figure that out or they can plug their ears and go \"la la la la la la\". Choice is theirs.",
">\n\nWhat example are you referring to?",
">\n\nAndraya Yearwood and Terry Miller, Lia Thomas, Laurel Hubbard, Mary Gregory, Rachel McKinnon, Tifanny Abreu, and CeCé Telfer just to name a few.",
">\n\nAs a non US citizen are the organisations these people play in left-wing? Or are they in left-wing states? Who made the decision?\nBecause as a lefty I don't understand how this is allowed?",
">\n\nMany of them play for schools and colleges, who, I believe, set their own standards. I'm not going to pretend to know everything about the issue; I just know that I've seen multiple trans athletes smash long standing women's records and it's usually reported as a positive in the media. The general rule, I think, is that one has to be on hormones for a certain number of years before they can compete, but that absolutely does not level the playing field; they still have an inherent biological advantage over cis women.",
">\n\nI lean pretty right-wing (though I don't consider myself a Republican or a conservative) but I have no problem with trans people. If they want to play sports, they shouldn't have some jackboot bullshit preventing them. However, it's blatantly obvious that, in general, putting them on a woman's team is often not the right answer. It's like letting one or two men compete while pumped full of steroids. We don't allow that...because it gives that competitor an unfair advantage over everyone else. We allow it in this case because the American left literally puts inclusivity above all else, even basic facts.",
">\n\nSo are you saying womens competetive sports are boring or why do one seem to care?",
">\n\nYou're not wrong but you stepped into a huge minefield with that one",
">\n\nThis is kind of a dumb post, people don’t care about woman’s sports more now than they did, people care about fairness in competition. It’s perfectly valid to say you don’t think genetic females should compete against genetic males, even if you don’t personally watch the sport. I don’t care about nascar at all, but if they suddenly started allowing some racers to use rocket powered jet-cars to race against standard cars, I’d speak up and say it’s not fair too lol",
">\n\nGenetic women have been excloded from female sports for having a naturally! high testosterone level because it would be \"unfair\" to let them compete against other women.\nTrans women are not superior, if they were, then they'd always win, wouldn't they?",
">\n\nDo you mean genetic woman on testosterone supplements? Because that’s pretty agreed that you can’t do that in sports. It’s absolutely unfair for a person born female to chemically change their bodies and still compete against natural females. It goes both ways, both are unfair, how is there a debate?",
">\n\nWow this is an ignorant thought to post. Cis women cared about their sports. I personally love HS girls basketball and college volleyball and Women’s pro occer.",
">\n\nWomen’s beach volleyball and women’s tennis excluded, women’s sports are boring as shit.",
">\n\nThis just isn’t true at all and if you think so you live in a bubble that probably doesn’t care about sports at all.",
">\n\nEveryone is up in arms about the trans women that win. No one discusses the trans women that lose or are unsuccessful (which are undoubtedly more).",
">\n\nLol I doubt it , also the most notable ones are usually people who transitioned while also being male athletes, not being good at all only to come to the female level and completely dominate. In all honesty this will probably make women’s sports more entertaining, however it will mainly consist of trans women while biological women get left behind.",
">\n\nThere hasn't actually been an increase of trans kids playing sports, just an increase in conservatives soiling themselves over it."
] |
>
It's like the entire argument is just an excuse to complain about a specific group of people while packaging in misinformation | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women.",
">\n\nSorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall.",
">\n\nThey are just normal women after the transition after all. Excluding them for being trans as being \"unfair\" would be the same as excloding POCs becausr they are boult a tiny bit different. I actually never heared anyobe say that blacks should be banned from running because they tend to be faster. Why do people that don't know anything about the sports or about being transgender are always the loudest?",
">\n\nWell, it's pretty unfair when a grown biological male who's been a \"woman\" for all of two years joins a sports team and starts breaking records. Left-wingers don't want to hear that because they've been taught to be inclusive at all costs - even if it kills them - but it's true. They can either try and figure that out or they can plug their ears and go \"la la la la la la\". Choice is theirs.",
">\n\nWhat example are you referring to?",
">\n\nAndraya Yearwood and Terry Miller, Lia Thomas, Laurel Hubbard, Mary Gregory, Rachel McKinnon, Tifanny Abreu, and CeCé Telfer just to name a few.",
">\n\nAs a non US citizen are the organisations these people play in left-wing? Or are they in left-wing states? Who made the decision?\nBecause as a lefty I don't understand how this is allowed?",
">\n\nMany of them play for schools and colleges, who, I believe, set their own standards. I'm not going to pretend to know everything about the issue; I just know that I've seen multiple trans athletes smash long standing women's records and it's usually reported as a positive in the media. The general rule, I think, is that one has to be on hormones for a certain number of years before they can compete, but that absolutely does not level the playing field; they still have an inherent biological advantage over cis women.",
">\n\nI lean pretty right-wing (though I don't consider myself a Republican or a conservative) but I have no problem with trans people. If they want to play sports, they shouldn't have some jackboot bullshit preventing them. However, it's blatantly obvious that, in general, putting them on a woman's team is often not the right answer. It's like letting one or two men compete while pumped full of steroids. We don't allow that...because it gives that competitor an unfair advantage over everyone else. We allow it in this case because the American left literally puts inclusivity above all else, even basic facts.",
">\n\nSo are you saying womens competetive sports are boring or why do one seem to care?",
">\n\nYou're not wrong but you stepped into a huge minefield with that one",
">\n\nThis is kind of a dumb post, people don’t care about woman’s sports more now than they did, people care about fairness in competition. It’s perfectly valid to say you don’t think genetic females should compete against genetic males, even if you don’t personally watch the sport. I don’t care about nascar at all, but if they suddenly started allowing some racers to use rocket powered jet-cars to race against standard cars, I’d speak up and say it’s not fair too lol",
">\n\nGenetic women have been excloded from female sports for having a naturally! high testosterone level because it would be \"unfair\" to let them compete against other women.\nTrans women are not superior, if they were, then they'd always win, wouldn't they?",
">\n\nDo you mean genetic woman on testosterone supplements? Because that’s pretty agreed that you can’t do that in sports. It’s absolutely unfair for a person born female to chemically change their bodies and still compete against natural females. It goes both ways, both are unfair, how is there a debate?",
">\n\nWow this is an ignorant thought to post. Cis women cared about their sports. I personally love HS girls basketball and college volleyball and Women’s pro occer.",
">\n\nWomen’s beach volleyball and women’s tennis excluded, women’s sports are boring as shit.",
">\n\nThis just isn’t true at all and if you think so you live in a bubble that probably doesn’t care about sports at all.",
">\n\nEveryone is up in arms about the trans women that win. No one discusses the trans women that lose or are unsuccessful (which are undoubtedly more).",
">\n\nLol I doubt it , also the most notable ones are usually people who transitioned while also being male athletes, not being good at all only to come to the female level and completely dominate. In all honesty this will probably make women’s sports more entertaining, however it will mainly consist of trans women while biological women get left behind.",
">\n\nThere hasn't actually been an increase of trans kids playing sports, just an increase in conservatives soiling themselves over it.",
">\n\nMaybe cause kids can’t transition until they’re 18 or 21 or whatever age you’re an adult in your country"
] |
>
I'm a guy and I've always loved women's sports. I was a big fan of Pat Summitt's Lady Vols teams. I enjoy the hell out of some women's soccer. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women.",
">\n\nSorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall.",
">\n\nThey are just normal women after the transition after all. Excluding them for being trans as being \"unfair\" would be the same as excloding POCs becausr they are boult a tiny bit different. I actually never heared anyobe say that blacks should be banned from running because they tend to be faster. Why do people that don't know anything about the sports or about being transgender are always the loudest?",
">\n\nWell, it's pretty unfair when a grown biological male who's been a \"woman\" for all of two years joins a sports team and starts breaking records. Left-wingers don't want to hear that because they've been taught to be inclusive at all costs - even if it kills them - but it's true. They can either try and figure that out or they can plug their ears and go \"la la la la la la\". Choice is theirs.",
">\n\nWhat example are you referring to?",
">\n\nAndraya Yearwood and Terry Miller, Lia Thomas, Laurel Hubbard, Mary Gregory, Rachel McKinnon, Tifanny Abreu, and CeCé Telfer just to name a few.",
">\n\nAs a non US citizen are the organisations these people play in left-wing? Or are they in left-wing states? Who made the decision?\nBecause as a lefty I don't understand how this is allowed?",
">\n\nMany of them play for schools and colleges, who, I believe, set their own standards. I'm not going to pretend to know everything about the issue; I just know that I've seen multiple trans athletes smash long standing women's records and it's usually reported as a positive in the media. The general rule, I think, is that one has to be on hormones for a certain number of years before they can compete, but that absolutely does not level the playing field; they still have an inherent biological advantage over cis women.",
">\n\nI lean pretty right-wing (though I don't consider myself a Republican or a conservative) but I have no problem with trans people. If they want to play sports, they shouldn't have some jackboot bullshit preventing them. However, it's blatantly obvious that, in general, putting them on a woman's team is often not the right answer. It's like letting one or two men compete while pumped full of steroids. We don't allow that...because it gives that competitor an unfair advantage over everyone else. We allow it in this case because the American left literally puts inclusivity above all else, even basic facts.",
">\n\nSo are you saying womens competetive sports are boring or why do one seem to care?",
">\n\nYou're not wrong but you stepped into a huge minefield with that one",
">\n\nThis is kind of a dumb post, people don’t care about woman’s sports more now than they did, people care about fairness in competition. It’s perfectly valid to say you don’t think genetic females should compete against genetic males, even if you don’t personally watch the sport. I don’t care about nascar at all, but if they suddenly started allowing some racers to use rocket powered jet-cars to race against standard cars, I’d speak up and say it’s not fair too lol",
">\n\nGenetic women have been excloded from female sports for having a naturally! high testosterone level because it would be \"unfair\" to let them compete against other women.\nTrans women are not superior, if they were, then they'd always win, wouldn't they?",
">\n\nDo you mean genetic woman on testosterone supplements? Because that’s pretty agreed that you can’t do that in sports. It’s absolutely unfair for a person born female to chemically change their bodies and still compete against natural females. It goes both ways, both are unfair, how is there a debate?",
">\n\nWow this is an ignorant thought to post. Cis women cared about their sports. I personally love HS girls basketball and college volleyball and Women’s pro occer.",
">\n\nWomen’s beach volleyball and women’s tennis excluded, women’s sports are boring as shit.",
">\n\nThis just isn’t true at all and if you think so you live in a bubble that probably doesn’t care about sports at all.",
">\n\nEveryone is up in arms about the trans women that win. No one discusses the trans women that lose or are unsuccessful (which are undoubtedly more).",
">\n\nLol I doubt it , also the most notable ones are usually people who transitioned while also being male athletes, not being good at all only to come to the female level and completely dominate. In all honesty this will probably make women’s sports more entertaining, however it will mainly consist of trans women while biological women get left behind.",
">\n\nThere hasn't actually been an increase of trans kids playing sports, just an increase in conservatives soiling themselves over it.",
">\n\nMaybe cause kids can’t transition until they’re 18 or 21 or whatever age you’re an adult in your country",
">\n\nIt's like the entire argument is just an excuse to complain about a specific group of people while packaging in misinformation"
] |
>
Because they hate trans people more than they give a shit about women's sports | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women.",
">\n\nSorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall.",
">\n\nThey are just normal women after the transition after all. Excluding them for being trans as being \"unfair\" would be the same as excloding POCs becausr they are boult a tiny bit different. I actually never heared anyobe say that blacks should be banned from running because they tend to be faster. Why do people that don't know anything about the sports or about being transgender are always the loudest?",
">\n\nWell, it's pretty unfair when a grown biological male who's been a \"woman\" for all of two years joins a sports team and starts breaking records. Left-wingers don't want to hear that because they've been taught to be inclusive at all costs - even if it kills them - but it's true. They can either try and figure that out or they can plug their ears and go \"la la la la la la\". Choice is theirs.",
">\n\nWhat example are you referring to?",
">\n\nAndraya Yearwood and Terry Miller, Lia Thomas, Laurel Hubbard, Mary Gregory, Rachel McKinnon, Tifanny Abreu, and CeCé Telfer just to name a few.",
">\n\nAs a non US citizen are the organisations these people play in left-wing? Or are they in left-wing states? Who made the decision?\nBecause as a lefty I don't understand how this is allowed?",
">\n\nMany of them play for schools and colleges, who, I believe, set their own standards. I'm not going to pretend to know everything about the issue; I just know that I've seen multiple trans athletes smash long standing women's records and it's usually reported as a positive in the media. The general rule, I think, is that one has to be on hormones for a certain number of years before they can compete, but that absolutely does not level the playing field; they still have an inherent biological advantage over cis women.",
">\n\nI lean pretty right-wing (though I don't consider myself a Republican or a conservative) but I have no problem with trans people. If they want to play sports, they shouldn't have some jackboot bullshit preventing them. However, it's blatantly obvious that, in general, putting them on a woman's team is often not the right answer. It's like letting one or two men compete while pumped full of steroids. We don't allow that...because it gives that competitor an unfair advantage over everyone else. We allow it in this case because the American left literally puts inclusivity above all else, even basic facts.",
">\n\nSo are you saying womens competetive sports are boring or why do one seem to care?",
">\n\nYou're not wrong but you stepped into a huge minefield with that one",
">\n\nThis is kind of a dumb post, people don’t care about woman’s sports more now than they did, people care about fairness in competition. It’s perfectly valid to say you don’t think genetic females should compete against genetic males, even if you don’t personally watch the sport. I don’t care about nascar at all, but if they suddenly started allowing some racers to use rocket powered jet-cars to race against standard cars, I’d speak up and say it’s not fair too lol",
">\n\nGenetic women have been excloded from female sports for having a naturally! high testosterone level because it would be \"unfair\" to let them compete against other women.\nTrans women are not superior, if they were, then they'd always win, wouldn't they?",
">\n\nDo you mean genetic woman on testosterone supplements? Because that’s pretty agreed that you can’t do that in sports. It’s absolutely unfair for a person born female to chemically change their bodies and still compete against natural females. It goes both ways, both are unfair, how is there a debate?",
">\n\nWow this is an ignorant thought to post. Cis women cared about their sports. I personally love HS girls basketball and college volleyball and Women’s pro occer.",
">\n\nWomen’s beach volleyball and women’s tennis excluded, women’s sports are boring as shit.",
">\n\nThis just isn’t true at all and if you think so you live in a bubble that probably doesn’t care about sports at all.",
">\n\nEveryone is up in arms about the trans women that win. No one discusses the trans women that lose or are unsuccessful (which are undoubtedly more).",
">\n\nLol I doubt it , also the most notable ones are usually people who transitioned while also being male athletes, not being good at all only to come to the female level and completely dominate. In all honesty this will probably make women’s sports more entertaining, however it will mainly consist of trans women while biological women get left behind.",
">\n\nThere hasn't actually been an increase of trans kids playing sports, just an increase in conservatives soiling themselves over it.",
">\n\nMaybe cause kids can’t transition until they’re 18 or 21 or whatever age you’re an adult in your country",
">\n\nIt's like the entire argument is just an excuse to complain about a specific group of people while packaging in misinformation",
">\n\nI'm a guy and I've always loved women's sports. I was a big fan of Pat Summitt's Lady Vols teams. I enjoy the hell out of some women's soccer."
] |
>
You can say that for pretty much anything.
Nobody cared about black lives until a black man died from a knee placed on his neck.
Nobody cared about those students until their school got shot up and a few died.
What else? | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nPerhaps in your local region, sure.\nThere are many countries that love women's sports of different types, and the fact that some do not is entirely down to then. My favourite example from my home nation, is the Norwegian women's handball team. Go shopping while they are playing in something important, and it's a ghost town. In entire malls, the only people will be the few who do not care and the ones who have to. Others will be flocked around screens.",
">\n\nthey’re clearly talking about the US where womens sports are mostly mocked yet conservatives still want to erase trans people from existence",
">\n\nIf women sports aren't exclusively for women then there is no point in dividing sports up between men and women. Men are naturally stronger on average then women that includes men who live as women. You don't get to go from 4 hundred and something to undisputed #1 by declaring yourself a women. I don't know why you hate women so much but they deserve a shot too.",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nDead and buried",
">\n\nMaybe do a little research into actual effects of HRT (specifically estrogen/estradiol) on muscle size and density. It would also help if you at least provided a solution instead of “trans people unfair advantage!!”.",
">\n\nCan't argue his point so you attack him?",
">\n\nwhere's the attack? asking someone to do research is attacking them?!",
">\n\nas a female weightlifter: makes total sense that no one was loud about women's sports before they changed the game. i was happy to stay in my lane, picking heavy things up and putting them down repeatedly 🤷♀️ \nit's kinda funny that people keep saying 'no one cared about women's sports before', it's another example of men speaking over us and deciding what we think lol",
">\n\nWhat’s your squat PB?",
">\n\n175/115/210/90 squat/bench/dead/shoulder press\npretty decent for a 115 lb 5'1 girl! but obviously those stats are don't really stack up for a guy of the same size who has been at it this long haha\nedit: also idk why you got downvoted for this, everyone who lifts wants to talk about their lifts",
">\n\nWow, these are really impressive numbers with your frame.\nCongratulations!!!",
">\n\nthank you so much!! it used to be higher but i've been dealing with some weird health issues, honestly lifting has been a HUGE help for still feeling normal and a great motivator to save up enough to travel for healthcare, so i can keep getting stronger!",
">\n\nA locked in fitness routine really can pull you through some challenging times. I'm really glad it is serving you so well.\nDon't forget to do your core work! 😉",
">\n\nThat was a great read thank you for sharing",
">\n\nThis is likely due to the balanced level of competition that was disrupted by an OP player.\nNot to over simplify this much more complex topic, but it happens all the time in E-sports. Characters in a game are not complained about until they disrupt the balanced nature.",
">\n\nExcept that isn't what happened: there hasn't even been a recent change in the number of trans people in women's sports, just an increase in weirdos adopting the Nazi position on trans people.",
">\n\nYou comment this as if you live in some reality where Trans athletes aren't sweeping gold and breaking records in women's sports.",
">\n\ndamn show me where?",
">\n\n“many [20] have won or are doing very well” but haven’t won any olympics because you’re required to be on hormones for a specific amount of time. \nlol gtfoh with that shit. wait til you hear about women born with vaginas and testicles where their ovaries should be. or vaginas and ovaries but still produce testosterone. biological sex is literally not a binary.",
">\n\nBiological sex IS binary the conditions you're talking about are abnormalities. There are people with 1 or 0 legs yet we still insist that humans are bipedal.",
">\n\nuncommon or not, they are naturally occurring often enough for people to want to live their lives the way they see fit. and you want to deny them their lived experience because why?",
">\n\nBecause it interferes with people's rightful places. No one is saying they can't play sports but they certainly shouldn't able to do it at the cost of real women.",
">\n\n“at the cost of” please show me where trans women edged out cis women in any meaningful way",
">\n\nI don't think people in those situations care about women's competitive sports per se, they're just pointing out that they believe it's an unfair advantage.\nI'm totally on board with anyone who wants to become whatever gender they feel most comfortable with. The problem becomes that there are physical differences between people who are born male and female, so one put head-to-head, those who were born male have an inherent physical advantage.\nCheck any event that relies on speed and strength in track and field and you'll see that all of the men's records exceed those of women's.\nThis is why they have men and women sports separate. If they were perfectly equal in terms of physical ability, there would be no need. The best players would be in the best league regardless of gender.\nPeople will try to argue that there are women out there who are faster and stronger than lots of other men, which is true. But the fastest 20 men in the world, will be faster than the fastest 20 women in the world. Same goes for strength. So you take someone who has the DNA of a male, and put them against competitors with female DNA (and whatever hormones come along with it), it becomes an unfair advantage.\nYou could argue that anyone who is a great athlete is likely a genetic freak. That their DNA was somehow different than everyone else's that gave them an unfair advantage. Michael Phelps is a great example. His body just happened to be built in such a way that he's essentially the perfect swimming machine.\nSo when it comes down to it, the question really becomes where do we draw the line. A lot of people feel like drawing based on the gender you were born is a natural way to do it, since most people would agree that the average male and the average female difference in speed, size, and strength.",
">\n\nThen why aren't all the top women's records obliterated by transwomen athletes?",
">\n\nMostly because of the strict rules put in place for trans women to compete at that level in the first place. There are a ton of compliance hoops in the way to make it to the level of international record holders.\nBut also because to have a top record \"obliterated\" by even a cis woman requires a lot of combination of factors: having a whole host of other genetic advantages outside the sex chromosomes, having the training and funding to develop that genetic advantage, having the right combination of timing and lack of injury, peaking at the right point in your career and at the right events. Put all those factors together, and you are already down to around a 1 in 10 million odds.\nNow, throw in a less than 1:20 chance of being trans gendered, and in less than 10% of those people having treatment that even approaches the level to compete internationally. Now you are looking at 1 in 2B odds. Which, altogether, puts you at around two transwomen on the planet who might possibly hold an international women's sports record. Which should make it pretty shocking that around 20 international sports titles are held by transwomen, a whole order of magnitude higher.\nThe real issues happen at much lower levels of competition than international records holders, where more people have that combination of factors to compete.",
">\n\n\n20 international sports titles are held by transwomen\n\nWhich ones?",
">\n\nIt is grossly unfair to the girls, that is why. Everyone who has ever played a sport or who has a daughter recognizes this. \nI actually think the fact that is so obviously unfair makes it so frustrating for everyone. Denying that it is unfair is like insisting that that the world is flat despite all evidence to the contrary. It is hard to even argue against this because you need some shared reality as a starting point and if you truly believe the world is flat or you truly believe boys don't have a biological advantage in sports over girls you are almost by definition ignoring much of the world around you.",
">\n\nits more that its frustrating to both sides because everyone wants a simple answer to a complex question.\ndo we just ban trans people from all sport ever? Only allow them to compete with cis men who will beat them basically every time? give trans people their own category that will flop in a year because of the small demographic and the fact the greater population don't care about trans people IN sport, they just want them OUT of womens sport?\nThere are trans women (even some of the highly controversial ones) who have lost fair and square to cis women so its actively true that trans women are able to compete on a fair (as far as \"fair\" goes in sport) level, but then there's the question of the fact that every sport puts different aspects of our bodies to the test, so do we mandate each individual sport? how to find what the \"fair\" position for competition is for each etc.\nWe cant just act like every instance of a trans person in sport is a recreation of the south park episode on trans althletes where its just knockoff Randy Savage saying hes a woman.",
">\n\nNo one is owed an audience when they play a sport. Your concern that the sport will \"flop\" if it's a trans league is completely irrelevant. If there are enough people to make up a league then who cares if there's millions of fans? Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport? If it's about getting to compete, then fans and money should not be part of this conversation. \nSo despite what you think, the answer is really as simple as having trans leagues. Hey, maybe one day they'd be popular, but you can't force people to watch trans sports any more than you can force people to watch women's sports.",
">\n\n> Are they owed wealth because they're good at a sport?\nnowhere did I imply this, but in order to be able to compete at every level there's a requirement for funding, even within school competition to a degree. if this were about pick up game of basketball in the schoolyard between friends this conversation wouldn't be happening anywhere.\nIts the same reason a lot of \"separate but equal\" arguments fall flat. where do the resources and support come from, especially when its a targeted minority that is constantly under fire even if you disregard sport?",
">\n\nI think you’re confusing caring about watching womens sports w feeling like they should have their fair shot at competition (ie not against biological men)",
">\n\nYeah, because before then, women weren’t training their whole lives in a sport to have the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute. It’s about fucking competitive fairness. Your post is quite ridiculous.",
">\n\nthere's monofin swimming. they're practically competitive mermaids",
">\n\nI mean I think people did care, I also don't think the majority of people will care more less now?",
">\n\nJust as no one goes to the doctor to diagnose their perfectly functioning digestive system until it starts rumbling.",
">\n\nYeah because a biological man being selfish enough to not realise he has a genetic edge over a woman goes against the fairness and dignity that sports offer. Beating someone by 3 circuits of the track is an utter waste of time",
">\n\nDo men not beat other men by 3 circuits?",
">\n\nThey do",
">\n\nFucking hell what’s the point",
">\n\nWell, the point is to run fast in a circle.\nMost people can see where the utter waste of time comes into play long before gender is considered.",
">\n\nwhen women were just competing against other women there was no reason for people who are generally not interested in sports to care but most people care about fairness, and because men have a significant biological advantage over women, this unfairness becomes very obvious in athletic sports. The biological differences between men and women are more than hormones, even after hormonal treatment men retain a vast advantage over women.",
">\n\nSorting by controversial gave me cancer. Truthfully, trans women have been allowed in women's sports including the olympics for decades and haven't been dominating at all. Their performances have always been fairly mediocre overall.",
">\n\nThey are just normal women after the transition after all. Excluding them for being trans as being \"unfair\" would be the same as excloding POCs becausr they are boult a tiny bit different. I actually never heared anyobe say that blacks should be banned from running because they tend to be faster. Why do people that don't know anything about the sports or about being transgender are always the loudest?",
">\n\nWell, it's pretty unfair when a grown biological male who's been a \"woman\" for all of two years joins a sports team and starts breaking records. Left-wingers don't want to hear that because they've been taught to be inclusive at all costs - even if it kills them - but it's true. They can either try and figure that out or they can plug their ears and go \"la la la la la la\". Choice is theirs.",
">\n\nWhat example are you referring to?",
">\n\nAndraya Yearwood and Terry Miller, Lia Thomas, Laurel Hubbard, Mary Gregory, Rachel McKinnon, Tifanny Abreu, and CeCé Telfer just to name a few.",
">\n\nAs a non US citizen are the organisations these people play in left-wing? Or are they in left-wing states? Who made the decision?\nBecause as a lefty I don't understand how this is allowed?",
">\n\nMany of them play for schools and colleges, who, I believe, set their own standards. I'm not going to pretend to know everything about the issue; I just know that I've seen multiple trans athletes smash long standing women's records and it's usually reported as a positive in the media. The general rule, I think, is that one has to be on hormones for a certain number of years before they can compete, but that absolutely does not level the playing field; they still have an inherent biological advantage over cis women.",
">\n\nI lean pretty right-wing (though I don't consider myself a Republican or a conservative) but I have no problem with trans people. If they want to play sports, they shouldn't have some jackboot bullshit preventing them. However, it's blatantly obvious that, in general, putting them on a woman's team is often not the right answer. It's like letting one or two men compete while pumped full of steroids. We don't allow that...because it gives that competitor an unfair advantage over everyone else. We allow it in this case because the American left literally puts inclusivity above all else, even basic facts.",
">\n\nSo are you saying womens competetive sports are boring or why do one seem to care?",
">\n\nYou're not wrong but you stepped into a huge minefield with that one",
">\n\nThis is kind of a dumb post, people don’t care about woman’s sports more now than they did, people care about fairness in competition. It’s perfectly valid to say you don’t think genetic females should compete against genetic males, even if you don’t personally watch the sport. I don’t care about nascar at all, but if they suddenly started allowing some racers to use rocket powered jet-cars to race against standard cars, I’d speak up and say it’s not fair too lol",
">\n\nGenetic women have been excloded from female sports for having a naturally! high testosterone level because it would be \"unfair\" to let them compete against other women.\nTrans women are not superior, if they were, then they'd always win, wouldn't they?",
">\n\nDo you mean genetic woman on testosterone supplements? Because that’s pretty agreed that you can’t do that in sports. It’s absolutely unfair for a person born female to chemically change their bodies and still compete against natural females. It goes both ways, both are unfair, how is there a debate?",
">\n\nWow this is an ignorant thought to post. Cis women cared about their sports. I personally love HS girls basketball and college volleyball and Women’s pro occer.",
">\n\nWomen’s beach volleyball and women’s tennis excluded, women’s sports are boring as shit.",
">\n\nThis just isn’t true at all and if you think so you live in a bubble that probably doesn’t care about sports at all.",
">\n\nEveryone is up in arms about the trans women that win. No one discusses the trans women that lose or are unsuccessful (which are undoubtedly more).",
">\n\nLol I doubt it , also the most notable ones are usually people who transitioned while also being male athletes, not being good at all only to come to the female level and completely dominate. In all honesty this will probably make women’s sports more entertaining, however it will mainly consist of trans women while biological women get left behind.",
">\n\nThere hasn't actually been an increase of trans kids playing sports, just an increase in conservatives soiling themselves over it.",
">\n\nMaybe cause kids can’t transition until they’re 18 or 21 or whatever age you’re an adult in your country",
">\n\nIt's like the entire argument is just an excuse to complain about a specific group of people while packaging in misinformation",
">\n\nI'm a guy and I've always loved women's sports. I was a big fan of Pat Summitt's Lady Vols teams. I enjoy the hell out of some women's soccer.",
">\n\nBecause they hate trans people more than they give a shit about women's sports"
] |
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