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But let’s not worry about fixing the economy… | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else."
] |
>
I wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes. | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…"
] |
>
Yeah! How dare they try and survive in a manner that is healthy for their own mental and physical well-being! | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…",
">\n\nI wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes."
] |
>
Thank GOD Trump the Rapist will ensure that the American government will target and attack more of the most persecuted and marginalized people on earth. Imagine that there could some kind of minority persecution that the GOP would allow us to not partake in? Fear of missing out is a terminal illness, friends, and we must all thank his Kremlin-serving ass for saving us from certain doom.
Buy Snacky S’mores. | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…",
">\n\nI wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes.",
">\n\nYeah! How dare they try and survive in a manner that is healthy for their own mental and physical well-being!"
] |
>
“America, home of the free, except this group of people.” | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…",
">\n\nI wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes.",
">\n\nYeah! How dare they try and survive in a manner that is healthy for their own mental and physical well-being!",
">\n\nThank GOD Trump the Rapist will ensure that the American government will target and attack more of the most persecuted and marginalized people on earth. Imagine that there could some kind of minority persecution that the GOP would allow us to not partake in? Fear of missing out is a terminal illness, friends, and we must all thank his Kremlin-serving ass for saving us from certain doom.\nBuy Snacky S’mores."
] |
>
What, he’s had enough of going after hookers and porn stars | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…",
">\n\nI wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes.",
">\n\nYeah! How dare they try and survive in a manner that is healthy for their own mental and physical well-being!",
">\n\nThank GOD Trump the Rapist will ensure that the American government will target and attack more of the most persecuted and marginalized people on earth. Imagine that there could some kind of minority persecution that the GOP would allow us to not partake in? Fear of missing out is a terminal illness, friends, and we must all thank his Kremlin-serving ass for saving us from certain doom.\nBuy Snacky S’mores.",
">\n\n“America, home of the free, except this group of people.”"
] |
>
Isn’t this already one of the few confirmed planks on the republican platform aka the “we hate your freedom” platform? | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…",
">\n\nI wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes.",
">\n\nYeah! How dare they try and survive in a manner that is healthy for their own mental and physical well-being!",
">\n\nThank GOD Trump the Rapist will ensure that the American government will target and attack more of the most persecuted and marginalized people on earth. Imagine that there could some kind of minority persecution that the GOP would allow us to not partake in? Fear of missing out is a terminal illness, friends, and we must all thank his Kremlin-serving ass for saving us from certain doom.\nBuy Snacky S’mores.",
">\n\n“America, home of the free, except this group of people.”",
">\n\nWhat, he’s had enough of going after hookers and porn stars"
] |
>
Reason number 5,436 not to elect him! | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…",
">\n\nI wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes.",
">\n\nYeah! How dare they try and survive in a manner that is healthy for their own mental and physical well-being!",
">\n\nThank GOD Trump the Rapist will ensure that the American government will target and attack more of the most persecuted and marginalized people on earth. Imagine that there could some kind of minority persecution that the GOP would allow us to not partake in? Fear of missing out is a terminal illness, friends, and we must all thank his Kremlin-serving ass for saving us from certain doom.\nBuy Snacky S’mores.",
">\n\n“America, home of the free, except this group of people.”",
">\n\nWhat, he’s had enough of going after hookers and porn stars",
">\n\nIsn’t this already one of the few confirmed planks on the republican platform aka the “we hate your freedom” platform?"
] |
>
So he is going after Americans?? | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…",
">\n\nI wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes.",
">\n\nYeah! How dare they try and survive in a manner that is healthy for their own mental and physical well-being!",
">\n\nThank GOD Trump the Rapist will ensure that the American government will target and attack more of the most persecuted and marginalized people on earth. Imagine that there could some kind of minority persecution that the GOP would allow us to not partake in? Fear of missing out is a terminal illness, friends, and we must all thank his Kremlin-serving ass for saving us from certain doom.\nBuy Snacky S’mores.",
">\n\n“America, home of the free, except this group of people.”",
">\n\nWhat, he’s had enough of going after hookers and porn stars",
">\n\nIsn’t this already one of the few confirmed planks on the republican platform aka the “we hate your freedom” platform?",
">\n\nReason number 5,436 not to elect him!"
] |
>
Stop giving this fucking tomato looking ass a platform. | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…",
">\n\nI wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes.",
">\n\nYeah! How dare they try and survive in a manner that is healthy for their own mental and physical well-being!",
">\n\nThank GOD Trump the Rapist will ensure that the American government will target and attack more of the most persecuted and marginalized people on earth. Imagine that there could some kind of minority persecution that the GOP would allow us to not partake in? Fear of missing out is a terminal illness, friends, and we must all thank his Kremlin-serving ass for saving us from certain doom.\nBuy Snacky S’mores.",
">\n\n“America, home of the free, except this group of people.”",
">\n\nWhat, he’s had enough of going after hookers and porn stars",
">\n\nIsn’t this already one of the few confirmed planks on the republican platform aka the “we hate your freedom” platform?",
">\n\nReason number 5,436 not to elect him!",
">\n\nSo he is going after Americans??"
] |
>
Hello FBI i need to report a hate crime in it's planification phase. | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…",
">\n\nI wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes.",
">\n\nYeah! How dare they try and survive in a manner that is healthy for their own mental and physical well-being!",
">\n\nThank GOD Trump the Rapist will ensure that the American government will target and attack more of the most persecuted and marginalized people on earth. Imagine that there could some kind of minority persecution that the GOP would allow us to not partake in? Fear of missing out is a terminal illness, friends, and we must all thank his Kremlin-serving ass for saving us from certain doom.\nBuy Snacky S’mores.",
">\n\n“America, home of the free, except this group of people.”",
">\n\nWhat, he’s had enough of going after hookers and porn stars",
">\n\nIsn’t this already one of the few confirmed planks on the republican platform aka the “we hate your freedom” platform?",
">\n\nReason number 5,436 not to elect him!",
">\n\nSo he is going after Americans??",
">\n\nStop giving this fucking tomato looking ass a platform."
] |
>
“Trump promises even more hate for fellow Americans if he is re-elected” | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…",
">\n\nI wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes.",
">\n\nYeah! How dare they try and survive in a manner that is healthy for their own mental and physical well-being!",
">\n\nThank GOD Trump the Rapist will ensure that the American government will target and attack more of the most persecuted and marginalized people on earth. Imagine that there could some kind of minority persecution that the GOP would allow us to not partake in? Fear of missing out is a terminal illness, friends, and we must all thank his Kremlin-serving ass for saving us from certain doom.\nBuy Snacky S’mores.",
">\n\n“America, home of the free, except this group of people.”",
">\n\nWhat, he’s had enough of going after hookers and porn stars",
">\n\nIsn’t this already one of the few confirmed planks on the republican platform aka the “we hate your freedom” platform?",
">\n\nReason number 5,436 not to elect him!",
">\n\nSo he is going after Americans??",
">\n\nStop giving this fucking tomato looking ass a platform.",
">\n\nHello FBI i need to report a hate crime in it's planification phase."
] |
>
Stop giving the dumpster fire oxygen. | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…",
">\n\nI wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes.",
">\n\nYeah! How dare they try and survive in a manner that is healthy for their own mental and physical well-being!",
">\n\nThank GOD Trump the Rapist will ensure that the American government will target and attack more of the most persecuted and marginalized people on earth. Imagine that there could some kind of minority persecution that the GOP would allow us to not partake in? Fear of missing out is a terminal illness, friends, and we must all thank his Kremlin-serving ass for saving us from certain doom.\nBuy Snacky S’mores.",
">\n\n“America, home of the free, except this group of people.”",
">\n\nWhat, he’s had enough of going after hookers and porn stars",
">\n\nIsn’t this already one of the few confirmed planks on the republican platform aka the “we hate your freedom” platform?",
">\n\nReason number 5,436 not to elect him!",
">\n\nSo he is going after Americans??",
">\n\nStop giving this fucking tomato looking ass a platform.",
">\n\nHello FBI i need to report a hate crime in it's planification phase.",
">\n\n“Trump promises even more hate for fellow Americans if he is re-elected”"
] |
>
stop downplaying calls for genocide | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…",
">\n\nI wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes.",
">\n\nYeah! How dare they try and survive in a manner that is healthy for their own mental and physical well-being!",
">\n\nThank GOD Trump the Rapist will ensure that the American government will target and attack more of the most persecuted and marginalized people on earth. Imagine that there could some kind of minority persecution that the GOP would allow us to not partake in? Fear of missing out is a terminal illness, friends, and we must all thank his Kremlin-serving ass for saving us from certain doom.\nBuy Snacky S’mores.",
">\n\n“America, home of the free, except this group of people.”",
">\n\nWhat, he’s had enough of going after hookers and porn stars",
">\n\nIsn’t this already one of the few confirmed planks on the republican platform aka the “we hate your freedom” platform?",
">\n\nReason number 5,436 not to elect him!",
">\n\nSo he is going after Americans??",
">\n\nStop giving this fucking tomato looking ass a platform.",
">\n\nHello FBI i need to report a hate crime in it's planification phase.",
">\n\n“Trump promises even more hate for fellow Americans if he is re-elected”",
">\n\nStop giving the dumpster fire oxygen."
] |
>
Stop it with trump articles already. He’s never going to be re-elected. And no one sane gives a fiddlers fart what he thinks! | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…",
">\n\nI wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes.",
">\n\nYeah! How dare they try and survive in a manner that is healthy for their own mental and physical well-being!",
">\n\nThank GOD Trump the Rapist will ensure that the American government will target and attack more of the most persecuted and marginalized people on earth. Imagine that there could some kind of minority persecution that the GOP would allow us to not partake in? Fear of missing out is a terminal illness, friends, and we must all thank his Kremlin-serving ass for saving us from certain doom.\nBuy Snacky S’mores.",
">\n\n“America, home of the free, except this group of people.”",
">\n\nWhat, he’s had enough of going after hookers and porn stars",
">\n\nIsn’t this already one of the few confirmed planks on the republican platform aka the “we hate your freedom” platform?",
">\n\nReason number 5,436 not to elect him!",
">\n\nSo he is going after Americans??",
">\n\nStop giving this fucking tomato looking ass a platform.",
">\n\nHello FBI i need to report a hate crime in it's planification phase.",
">\n\n“Trump promises even more hate for fellow Americans if he is re-elected”",
">\n\nStop giving the dumpster fire oxygen.",
">\n\nstop downplaying calls for genocide"
] |
>
He's an officially-declared candidate for president and winning in some early polls. He still clearly commands a lot of support and loyalty in one of our two major political parties. As despicable and horrifying as he is, that means that what he says and does is newsworthy. | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…",
">\n\nI wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes.",
">\n\nYeah! How dare they try and survive in a manner that is healthy for their own mental and physical well-being!",
">\n\nThank GOD Trump the Rapist will ensure that the American government will target and attack more of the most persecuted and marginalized people on earth. Imagine that there could some kind of minority persecution that the GOP would allow us to not partake in? Fear of missing out is a terminal illness, friends, and we must all thank his Kremlin-serving ass for saving us from certain doom.\nBuy Snacky S’mores.",
">\n\n“America, home of the free, except this group of people.”",
">\n\nWhat, he’s had enough of going after hookers and porn stars",
">\n\nIsn’t this already one of the few confirmed planks on the republican platform aka the “we hate your freedom” platform?",
">\n\nReason number 5,436 not to elect him!",
">\n\nSo he is going after Americans??",
">\n\nStop giving this fucking tomato looking ass a platform.",
">\n\nHello FBI i need to report a hate crime in it's planification phase.",
">\n\n“Trump promises even more hate for fellow Americans if he is re-elected”",
">\n\nStop giving the dumpster fire oxygen.",
">\n\nstop downplaying calls for genocide",
">\n\nStop it with trump articles already. He’s never going to be re-elected. And no one sane gives a fiddlers fart what he thinks!"
] |
>
Maybe cause he believes in the things most Americans still do. Democracy is majority rule and it’s being destroyed by the liberal minority. Liberalism is not what America was built on. We’re not better off as a society just look at how screwed up our country is because of it. They banned cigarette ads on TV years ago but it’s ok for two gay men kissing on tv over HIV meds. It offends people but is still televised. You have a segment of our population probably less than half of one percent in America being given a larger voice than they should have. Ask yourself why he’s so popular by the majority in America. If Trump kept his whining mouth shut Biden would of never been elected. | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…",
">\n\nI wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes.",
">\n\nYeah! How dare they try and survive in a manner that is healthy for their own mental and physical well-being!",
">\n\nThank GOD Trump the Rapist will ensure that the American government will target and attack more of the most persecuted and marginalized people on earth. Imagine that there could some kind of minority persecution that the GOP would allow us to not partake in? Fear of missing out is a terminal illness, friends, and we must all thank his Kremlin-serving ass for saving us from certain doom.\nBuy Snacky S’mores.",
">\n\n“America, home of the free, except this group of people.”",
">\n\nWhat, he’s had enough of going after hookers and porn stars",
">\n\nIsn’t this already one of the few confirmed planks on the republican platform aka the “we hate your freedom” platform?",
">\n\nReason number 5,436 not to elect him!",
">\n\nSo he is going after Americans??",
">\n\nStop giving this fucking tomato looking ass a platform.",
">\n\nHello FBI i need to report a hate crime in it's planification phase.",
">\n\n“Trump promises even more hate for fellow Americans if he is re-elected”",
">\n\nStop giving the dumpster fire oxygen.",
">\n\nstop downplaying calls for genocide",
">\n\nStop it with trump articles already. He’s never going to be re-elected. And no one sane gives a fiddlers fart what he thinks!",
">\n\nHe's an officially-declared candidate for president and winning in some early polls. He still clearly commands a lot of support and loyalty in one of our two major political parties. As despicable and horrifying as he is, that means that what he says and does is newsworthy."
] |
>
What's wrong with two gay men kissing on TV? | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…",
">\n\nI wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes.",
">\n\nYeah! How dare they try and survive in a manner that is healthy for their own mental and physical well-being!",
">\n\nThank GOD Trump the Rapist will ensure that the American government will target and attack more of the most persecuted and marginalized people on earth. Imagine that there could some kind of minority persecution that the GOP would allow us to not partake in? Fear of missing out is a terminal illness, friends, and we must all thank his Kremlin-serving ass for saving us from certain doom.\nBuy Snacky S’mores.",
">\n\n“America, home of the free, except this group of people.”",
">\n\nWhat, he’s had enough of going after hookers and porn stars",
">\n\nIsn’t this already one of the few confirmed planks on the republican platform aka the “we hate your freedom” platform?",
">\n\nReason number 5,436 not to elect him!",
">\n\nSo he is going after Americans??",
">\n\nStop giving this fucking tomato looking ass a platform.",
">\n\nHello FBI i need to report a hate crime in it's planification phase.",
">\n\n“Trump promises even more hate for fellow Americans if he is re-elected”",
">\n\nStop giving the dumpster fire oxygen.",
">\n\nstop downplaying calls for genocide",
">\n\nStop it with trump articles already. He’s never going to be re-elected. And no one sane gives a fiddlers fart what he thinks!",
">\n\nHe's an officially-declared candidate for president and winning in some early polls. He still clearly commands a lot of support and loyalty in one of our two major political parties. As despicable and horrifying as he is, that means that what he says and does is newsworthy.",
">\n\nMaybe cause he believes in the things most Americans still do. Democracy is majority rule and it’s being destroyed by the liberal minority. Liberalism is not what America was built on. We’re not better off as a society just look at how screwed up our country is because of it. They banned cigarette ads on TV years ago but it’s ok for two gay men kissing on tv over HIV meds. It offends people but is still televised. You have a segment of our population probably less than half of one percent in America being given a larger voice than they should have. Ask yourself why he’s so popular by the majority in America. If Trump kept his whining mouth shut Biden would of never been elected."
] |
>
Less time to be smoking cigarettes? 🤷🏻♀️ | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…",
">\n\nI wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes.",
">\n\nYeah! How dare they try and survive in a manner that is healthy for their own mental and physical well-being!",
">\n\nThank GOD Trump the Rapist will ensure that the American government will target and attack more of the most persecuted and marginalized people on earth. Imagine that there could some kind of minority persecution that the GOP would allow us to not partake in? Fear of missing out is a terminal illness, friends, and we must all thank his Kremlin-serving ass for saving us from certain doom.\nBuy Snacky S’mores.",
">\n\n“America, home of the free, except this group of people.”",
">\n\nWhat, he’s had enough of going after hookers and porn stars",
">\n\nIsn’t this already one of the few confirmed planks on the republican platform aka the “we hate your freedom” platform?",
">\n\nReason number 5,436 not to elect him!",
">\n\nSo he is going after Americans??",
">\n\nStop giving this fucking tomato looking ass a platform.",
">\n\nHello FBI i need to report a hate crime in it's planification phase.",
">\n\n“Trump promises even more hate for fellow Americans if he is re-elected”",
">\n\nStop giving the dumpster fire oxygen.",
">\n\nstop downplaying calls for genocide",
">\n\nStop it with trump articles already. He’s never going to be re-elected. And no one sane gives a fiddlers fart what he thinks!",
">\n\nHe's an officially-declared candidate for president and winning in some early polls. He still clearly commands a lot of support and loyalty in one of our two major political parties. As despicable and horrifying as he is, that means that what he says and does is newsworthy.",
">\n\nMaybe cause he believes in the things most Americans still do. Democracy is majority rule and it’s being destroyed by the liberal minority. Liberalism is not what America was built on. We’re not better off as a society just look at how screwed up our country is because of it. They banned cigarette ads on TV years ago but it’s ok for two gay men kissing on tv over HIV meds. It offends people but is still televised. You have a segment of our population probably less than half of one percent in America being given a larger voice than they should have. Ask yourself why he’s so popular by the majority in America. If Trump kept his whining mouth shut Biden would of never been elected.",
">\n\nWhat's wrong with two gay men kissing on TV?"
] |
>
What about men with vaginas in men’s locker room and sports? | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…",
">\n\nI wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes.",
">\n\nYeah! How dare they try and survive in a manner that is healthy for their own mental and physical well-being!",
">\n\nThank GOD Trump the Rapist will ensure that the American government will target and attack more of the most persecuted and marginalized people on earth. Imagine that there could some kind of minority persecution that the GOP would allow us to not partake in? Fear of missing out is a terminal illness, friends, and we must all thank his Kremlin-serving ass for saving us from certain doom.\nBuy Snacky S’mores.",
">\n\n“America, home of the free, except this group of people.”",
">\n\nWhat, he’s had enough of going after hookers and porn stars",
">\n\nIsn’t this already one of the few confirmed planks on the republican platform aka the “we hate your freedom” platform?",
">\n\nReason number 5,436 not to elect him!",
">\n\nSo he is going after Americans??",
">\n\nStop giving this fucking tomato looking ass a platform.",
">\n\nHello FBI i need to report a hate crime in it's planification phase.",
">\n\n“Trump promises even more hate for fellow Americans if he is re-elected”",
">\n\nStop giving the dumpster fire oxygen.",
">\n\nstop downplaying calls for genocide",
">\n\nStop it with trump articles already. He’s never going to be re-elected. And no one sane gives a fiddlers fart what he thinks!",
">\n\nHe's an officially-declared candidate for president and winning in some early polls. He still clearly commands a lot of support and loyalty in one of our two major political parties. As despicable and horrifying as he is, that means that what he says and does is newsworthy.",
">\n\nMaybe cause he believes in the things most Americans still do. Democracy is majority rule and it’s being destroyed by the liberal minority. Liberalism is not what America was built on. We’re not better off as a society just look at how screwed up our country is because of it. They banned cigarette ads on TV years ago but it’s ok for two gay men kissing on tv over HIV meds. It offends people but is still televised. You have a segment of our population probably less than half of one percent in America being given a larger voice than they should have. Ask yourself why he’s so popular by the majority in America. If Trump kept his whining mouth shut Biden would of never been elected.",
">\n\nWhat's wrong with two gay men kissing on TV?",
">\n\nLess time to be smoking cigarettes? 🤷🏻♀️"
] |
>
I don't like that | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…",
">\n\nI wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes.",
">\n\nYeah! How dare they try and survive in a manner that is healthy for their own mental and physical well-being!",
">\n\nThank GOD Trump the Rapist will ensure that the American government will target and attack more of the most persecuted and marginalized people on earth. Imagine that there could some kind of minority persecution that the GOP would allow us to not partake in? Fear of missing out is a terminal illness, friends, and we must all thank his Kremlin-serving ass for saving us from certain doom.\nBuy Snacky S’mores.",
">\n\n“America, home of the free, except this group of people.”",
">\n\nWhat, he’s had enough of going after hookers and porn stars",
">\n\nIsn’t this already one of the few confirmed planks on the republican platform aka the “we hate your freedom” platform?",
">\n\nReason number 5,436 not to elect him!",
">\n\nSo he is going after Americans??",
">\n\nStop giving this fucking tomato looking ass a platform.",
">\n\nHello FBI i need to report a hate crime in it's planification phase.",
">\n\n“Trump promises even more hate for fellow Americans if he is re-elected”",
">\n\nStop giving the dumpster fire oxygen.",
">\n\nstop downplaying calls for genocide",
">\n\nStop it with trump articles already. He’s never going to be re-elected. And no one sane gives a fiddlers fart what he thinks!",
">\n\nHe's an officially-declared candidate for president and winning in some early polls. He still clearly commands a lot of support and loyalty in one of our two major political parties. As despicable and horrifying as he is, that means that what he says and does is newsworthy.",
">\n\nMaybe cause he believes in the things most Americans still do. Democracy is majority rule and it’s being destroyed by the liberal minority. Liberalism is not what America was built on. We’re not better off as a society just look at how screwed up our country is because of it. They banned cigarette ads on TV years ago but it’s ok for two gay men kissing on tv over HIV meds. It offends people but is still televised. You have a segment of our population probably less than half of one percent in America being given a larger voice than they should have. Ask yourself why he’s so popular by the majority in America. If Trump kept his whining mouth shut Biden would of never been elected.",
">\n\nWhat's wrong with two gay men kissing on TV?",
">\n\nLess time to be smoking cigarettes? 🤷🏻♀️",
">\n\nWhat about men with vaginas in men’s locker room and sports?"
] |
>
So what is your solution | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…",
">\n\nI wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes.",
">\n\nYeah! How dare they try and survive in a manner that is healthy for their own mental and physical well-being!",
">\n\nThank GOD Trump the Rapist will ensure that the American government will target and attack more of the most persecuted and marginalized people on earth. Imagine that there could some kind of minority persecution that the GOP would allow us to not partake in? Fear of missing out is a terminal illness, friends, and we must all thank his Kremlin-serving ass for saving us from certain doom.\nBuy Snacky S’mores.",
">\n\n“America, home of the free, except this group of people.”",
">\n\nWhat, he’s had enough of going after hookers and porn stars",
">\n\nIsn’t this already one of the few confirmed planks on the republican platform aka the “we hate your freedom” platform?",
">\n\nReason number 5,436 not to elect him!",
">\n\nSo he is going after Americans??",
">\n\nStop giving this fucking tomato looking ass a platform.",
">\n\nHello FBI i need to report a hate crime in it's planification phase.",
">\n\n“Trump promises even more hate for fellow Americans if he is re-elected”",
">\n\nStop giving the dumpster fire oxygen.",
">\n\nstop downplaying calls for genocide",
">\n\nStop it with trump articles already. He’s never going to be re-elected. And no one sane gives a fiddlers fart what he thinks!",
">\n\nHe's an officially-declared candidate for president and winning in some early polls. He still clearly commands a lot of support and loyalty in one of our two major political parties. As despicable and horrifying as he is, that means that what he says and does is newsworthy.",
">\n\nMaybe cause he believes in the things most Americans still do. Democracy is majority rule and it’s being destroyed by the liberal minority. Liberalism is not what America was built on. We’re not better off as a society just look at how screwed up our country is because of it. They banned cigarette ads on TV years ago but it’s ok for two gay men kissing on tv over HIV meds. It offends people but is still televised. You have a segment of our population probably less than half of one percent in America being given a larger voice than they should have. Ask yourself why he’s so popular by the majority in America. If Trump kept his whining mouth shut Biden would of never been elected.",
">\n\nWhat's wrong with two gay men kissing on TV?",
">\n\nLess time to be smoking cigarettes? 🤷🏻♀️",
">\n\nWhat about men with vaginas in men’s locker room and sports?",
">\n\nI don't like that"
] |
>
My preferred solution is to have a private room(single person) readily available so they can use it.
Trans people can have their own sports competition just like we have Paralympic. | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…",
">\n\nI wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes.",
">\n\nYeah! How dare they try and survive in a manner that is healthy for their own mental and physical well-being!",
">\n\nThank GOD Trump the Rapist will ensure that the American government will target and attack more of the most persecuted and marginalized people on earth. Imagine that there could some kind of minority persecution that the GOP would allow us to not partake in? Fear of missing out is a terminal illness, friends, and we must all thank his Kremlin-serving ass for saving us from certain doom.\nBuy Snacky S’mores.",
">\n\n“America, home of the free, except this group of people.”",
">\n\nWhat, he’s had enough of going after hookers and porn stars",
">\n\nIsn’t this already one of the few confirmed planks on the republican platform aka the “we hate your freedom” platform?",
">\n\nReason number 5,436 not to elect him!",
">\n\nSo he is going after Americans??",
">\n\nStop giving this fucking tomato looking ass a platform.",
">\n\nHello FBI i need to report a hate crime in it's planification phase.",
">\n\n“Trump promises even more hate for fellow Americans if he is re-elected”",
">\n\nStop giving the dumpster fire oxygen.",
">\n\nstop downplaying calls for genocide",
">\n\nStop it with trump articles already. He’s never going to be re-elected. And no one sane gives a fiddlers fart what he thinks!",
">\n\nHe's an officially-declared candidate for president and winning in some early polls. He still clearly commands a lot of support and loyalty in one of our two major political parties. As despicable and horrifying as he is, that means that what he says and does is newsworthy.",
">\n\nMaybe cause he believes in the things most Americans still do. Democracy is majority rule and it’s being destroyed by the liberal minority. Liberalism is not what America was built on. We’re not better off as a society just look at how screwed up our country is because of it. They banned cigarette ads on TV years ago but it’s ok for two gay men kissing on tv over HIV meds. It offends people but is still televised. You have a segment of our population probably less than half of one percent in America being given a larger voice than they should have. Ask yourself why he’s so popular by the majority in America. If Trump kept his whining mouth shut Biden would of never been elected.",
">\n\nWhat's wrong with two gay men kissing on TV?",
">\n\nLess time to be smoking cigarettes? 🤷🏻♀️",
">\n\nWhat about men with vaginas in men’s locker room and sports?",
">\n\nI don't like that",
">\n\nSo what is your solution"
] |
>
You do understand there’s not like. Enough of them. To do that. Everyone would rather have private locker rooms. Why is this a problem. Why is it okay to have a bunch of same sex children naked together and be super uncomfortable.
Seems like it’s not a trans issue and more of an old design is terrible issue. Stalls to the floor. No more required nonsense locker rooms. Sounds great to me. | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…",
">\n\nI wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes.",
">\n\nYeah! How dare they try and survive in a manner that is healthy for their own mental and physical well-being!",
">\n\nThank GOD Trump the Rapist will ensure that the American government will target and attack more of the most persecuted and marginalized people on earth. Imagine that there could some kind of minority persecution that the GOP would allow us to not partake in? Fear of missing out is a terminal illness, friends, and we must all thank his Kremlin-serving ass for saving us from certain doom.\nBuy Snacky S’mores.",
">\n\n“America, home of the free, except this group of people.”",
">\n\nWhat, he’s had enough of going after hookers and porn stars",
">\n\nIsn’t this already one of the few confirmed planks on the republican platform aka the “we hate your freedom” platform?",
">\n\nReason number 5,436 not to elect him!",
">\n\nSo he is going after Americans??",
">\n\nStop giving this fucking tomato looking ass a platform.",
">\n\nHello FBI i need to report a hate crime in it's planification phase.",
">\n\n“Trump promises even more hate for fellow Americans if he is re-elected”",
">\n\nStop giving the dumpster fire oxygen.",
">\n\nstop downplaying calls for genocide",
">\n\nStop it with trump articles already. He’s never going to be re-elected. And no one sane gives a fiddlers fart what he thinks!",
">\n\nHe's an officially-declared candidate for president and winning in some early polls. He still clearly commands a lot of support and loyalty in one of our two major political parties. As despicable and horrifying as he is, that means that what he says and does is newsworthy.",
">\n\nMaybe cause he believes in the things most Americans still do. Democracy is majority rule and it’s being destroyed by the liberal minority. Liberalism is not what America was built on. We’re not better off as a society just look at how screwed up our country is because of it. They banned cigarette ads on TV years ago but it’s ok for two gay men kissing on tv over HIV meds. It offends people but is still televised. You have a segment of our population probably less than half of one percent in America being given a larger voice than they should have. Ask yourself why he’s so popular by the majority in America. If Trump kept his whining mouth shut Biden would of never been elected.",
">\n\nWhat's wrong with two gay men kissing on TV?",
">\n\nLess time to be smoking cigarettes? 🤷🏻♀️",
">\n\nWhat about men with vaginas in men’s locker room and sports?",
">\n\nI don't like that",
">\n\nSo what is your solution",
">\n\nMy preferred solution is to have a private room(single person) readily available so they can use it. \nTrans people can have their own sports competition just like we have Paralympic."
] |
> | [
"Imagine looking at the current state of the world and deciding that one of the most important issues is that Trans People have too many rights.",
">\n\nHonest to god, why the trans hate and drag queen fury? Why can’t people just mind their own damn business? The world would be a much better place.",
">\n\nApparently about two thousand years ago, a Jewish guy got nailed to a piece of wood and he was very angry about this type of stuff, his followers wrote a whole fan fiction about him when he died. Apparently he did pretty well commercially.",
">\n\nThat Jewish guy didn't say anything about gay people, or trans people. He did say a lot about people using religion to abuse others.",
">\n\nIf you want to get technicalities, the guys who wrote against being gay were being guided by god which is the Jewish guys father but also him in some weird way… so maybe in the years between being his own dad and being born to a virgin he had a change of heart but seeing as he hasn’t said anything to the pastors down here on earth I doubt it.",
">\n\nI would argue that none of that book was written by any god. It was all written by proto-jewish people, jewish people, and the last bit was written by christians. \nI say proto-jewish people because the early parts of the bible clearly depict god as one of many gods. It is only later on that there is a singular god.",
">\n\nI like to point out the story of Moses throwing his staff down and turning it to a snake is supposed to read as a \"our god is better than their god\" because apparently the Pharos magician can also wield supernatural power, just not as good.",
">\n\nThe conservative political project is truly deranged.",
">\n\nThey're competing to see who the bigger bigot is.\nTruly disgusting stuff...",
">\n\n\nTruly disgusting stuff...\n\nit is....but oh boy is this the best hill to die on. Keep taking the hard line and they'll find out just how many people don't want to live in an authoritarian shit hole. Every day another voter turns 18....",
">\n\nWhich is why they've been aggressively going after schools and education, to ensure that as many of those new 18 year old voters as possible don't have the ability to think critically when they vote.",
">\n\nThis will backfire, at least in the short term.\nTotal Streisand effect with banning books.\nThe kids are fine, and are learning at a young age their parents are not.",
">\n\nRemember his ban on trans people in the military? This isn't new ground for him. \nHe is capitalizing on it being a forefront issue with the Republican Party right now, tho.",
">\n\nIt's pretty telling that Republicans are so scared of trans people when they make up like, what, 0.01% of the population?",
">\n\nIn the US it's 1.6%. That number is 5% among younger people. \nJust as with statistics on how many people describe themselves as something other than heterosexual, the numbers are much higher among younger people and growing. Not because more people are gay or trans, but because more people are comfortable being out and that's a very good thing.",
">\n\nCulture wars are useful when you have no tangible ideas about how to actually govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule, not govern.",
">\n\nThey want to rule forever while actually not doing anything productive but still keep getting more and more money while the world around them burns.",
">\n\nThese motherfuckers are so pathetic. They find people to bully, so sadistic haters will vote for them.",
">\n\nThey peaked in high school and are still trying to ride that wave. You're right, it's absolutely pathetic.",
">\n\nWell they got to bully trans people without suffering any repercussions back then. Good times. It's all they had and they want it back.",
">\n\nI'd call Trump an asshole, but an asshole has a useful function.",
">\n\nHis powerful function is wrecking people's rights and distracting people from real problems",
">\n\nDid I miss something and Cultural War suddenly became a winning campaign strategy for the GOP? Last I checked, they weren't, especially at the polls.",
">\n\nsadly, it did great in 2016 and even more sadly, while Dems eked out congressional majorities and the presidency in 2020, it didn't turn off nearly enough people for a Blue Wave that year and we are stuck with horrible gerrymandering for another decade. \noh, and assclowns Desantis & Abbott won huge with it. \nthey don't have to win big, they just have to win enough.",
">\n\nThey’ve been losing more nationally in every election since 2016. 2018, 2020, 2022 haven’t been good for republicans.",
">\n\nyes, but my point is they are winning \"just enough.\" \ni mean, they did take over the House. Was it a Red Wave? No. But they have that power now. \nThat's the whole point of cancer--it spreads everywhere.",
">\n\nAnyone that votes for him is a horrible person just like him.",
">\n\nThis dude is Satan... he's gonna do a Hitler and turn America into a dictatorship. I know what'll happen, they had a chance to prosecute Hitler but failed and then he got in power and the rest is history. History will repeat itself again.",
">\n\nThe party of small, non-intrusive government... as long as you agree with everything the party says.",
">\n\nfreedom!",
">\n\ntrump will promise anything to get elected. Once in office he could hardly get anything done at all outside of watching tv or golfing. \nI don’t think republicans believe he’s worth electing anymore. \nHe’s going to be a spoiler for his parties ticket.",
">\n\nGod I hope so",
">\n\nBecause the party that's all about freedom, personal liberties, and smaller government... oh, wait.",
">\n\nCan’t wait for the “that’s not what he actually meant!!!” crowd over in r/conservative",
">\n\nIt’s such a small issue that is easy to propagandise about.\nIf I had kids and I had to choose between a trans daughter or a suicidal teen then I would prefer a trans daughter. Just because I am not personally trans, it doesn’t mean I cannot support those who are. \nThe fact is these people exist whether we ignore them or help them and if we support them from a younger age then maybe they will grow up feeling less of a freak and something dirty to be hidden away or ashamed of.",
">\n\nYou understand that, regardless of whether or not someone is trans or what their biological sex is, it’s illegal to burst into bathrooms and sexually harass people, right? This imagined crisis of boys saying they’re girls so they can go into bathrooms and leer at women totally free from reprisal is such a farce. By your logic, gay men should not be allowed into boys’ rooms and lesbians should not be allowed into girls’ rooms because those are the places where people have the genitals they prefer.\nSimultaneously, this idea that there exists a class of elite male athletes who are simultaneously ready to do anything to be a winner and also introspective enough to say to themselves “I absolutely cannot beat another man, I have to pretend to be a woman to even have a chance of winning” is childish thinking at best.",
">\n\n“First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Communist \nThen they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Socialist \nThen they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews\nAnd I did not speak out\nBecause I was not a Jew \nThen they came for me\nAnd there was no one left\nTo speak out for me.” —Martin Niemöller",
">\n\nI guess he's not selling these anymore...",
">\n\nTwinks for trump!",
">\n\nWhat kind of a fucked up country allows an identifiable and at-risk group to be openly threatened like this? Just what does \"go after\" mean here?",
">\n\nIt’s not allowed.",
">\n\nWell he's done it, walking free and no consequences at all, again. So yes, it is allowed.",
">\n\nThe pre-felon has said it, hasn’t “done it”",
">\n\nSo when you said \"not allowed\".....you were agreeing with me.....",
">\n\nI was disagreeing with your assertion that he ‘did’ something since he has no power to enact any of his crap. I agree that doing such would be illegal and unconstitutional and that even the rhetoric puts lives as risk. \nHave I explained myself well enough to satisfy you?",
">\n\nGotta keep up with DeSantis.",
">\n\nKeep fanning the flames you tangerine douche bag!!! Unite the entire country against you!!! Nothing gets more Democrat voters out than Trump shouting his rhetoric of hate and division!!! He's actually better for the entire country campaigning then he would be in jail. Keep that poopshoot of a mouth running Donnie Dipshit!!!!",
">\n\nI am really, really, REALLY tired of being called a child abuser by these… Child abusers.",
">\n\nThis extended election cycle is going to have a body count.\nThe people who can't wait to use those guns have been at a fever pitch for years and just need a target.\nThe candidate in an attempt to get media approval will be competitive in getting ugly with their campaigns. They are going to have to outdo each other on attacks on trans, globalists, and whatever enemy conjured up du jour. It's not gonna happen, it IS happening and will get worse.",
">\n\nThis is what you get when you elect a raging asshole to public office.\nI mean, we all have to deal with raging assholes in our private lives. Whether it's at the bank, the gas station, or just going about our lives getting groceries.\nIt seems that Coleman Sweeney (look him up) is everywhere.\nThat's fine. We can deal with those raging assholes in our regular lives.\nThe problem comes is it when they get elected to public office.\nNo matter what you think of policy, no matter what you think of political beliefs, it makes no sense to elect a raging asshole to a position of power.\nSo why do they keep getting elected?\nThe other raging assholes are voting for them.",
">\n\nCalling it now: \nDeSantis beats Trump in the primaries and gets RNC nomination. \nTrump goes independent and splinters the vote. \nBiden wins. \nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.",
">\n\n\nTrump becomes first independent/3rd party to come close to competing.\n\nPerot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 1992, iirc. That was certainly competitive.",
">\n\nIf he hadn’t dropped out and then rejoined the race there was a decent chance he wins. A lot of people were behind him.",
">\n\nI remember reading about all the log cabin republicans twisting themselves in knots to support trump...\nBet none of them ever changed their tune.\nSad thing is, in a way this comment doesn't matter. Republicans have ALWAYS been after the lgtbq community.",
">\n\nOtherwise, they have to deal with fornication among the straights. But sex sells in advertising, and a fire & brimstone sermon about premarital sex is a way to empty the pews.",
">\n\nThey wouldn't care about straight sex. It's about hating other people.",
">\n\nOnce they eliminate/outlaw the undesirables, they would need a new demon….eventually they WOULD go after sex for pleasure and not procreation…",
">\n\nNaw. They'll Keep hating them anyways. \n Is like antifa. They never existed except on fox news. Truth and logic don't matter",
">\n\nThey can only organize themselves around hate.",
">\n\nBecause hate and fear are emotions that are much easier to trigger, and capitalize on, in people than hope and love.",
">\n\nGoing after people's kids. Waging a war on children. This is not going to go the way they think it will.",
">\n\nGeorge Santos entered The chat",
">\n\ngod forbid people be happy in their bodies",
">\n\nBringing back the pink triangles, huh?",
">\n\nI legitimately hate every Republican Politician!!!!",
">\n\n\nThis attack [on the Pulse Nightclub] is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation [and an] assault on people’s ability to love who they want and express their identity. \nI am the real friend of the gay community [as opposed to Hillary Clinton].\n\n-- Donald Trump, June 13, 2016\n^(emphasis mine)",
">\n\nUS politics have far exceeded the imagination of any dystopian sci fi writing.",
">\n\nAs a trans person this shit is terrifying. I'm honestly worried that the majority of people don't care about us and are happy to let us die, and wouldn't help fight, and bleed with us.\nPlease, someone prove me wrong. I'm not even American but I'm worried.",
">\n\nMy heart goes out to you.",
">\n\nThere's the fascism.",
">\n\nThe republican obsession over trans people is freaky.",
">\n\nIt's like they think we're an alien species hell-bent on enslaving children and milking them for their adrenochrome and gametes.",
">\n\nSo he found a target that doesn't scare him ... yet.",
">\n\nIt’s a target that is small. Not a lot of people in the middle are willing to defend. BUT a LOT of people are willing to persecute. Perfect choice for those scumbags.",
">\n\n\"Trump signals he is adopting DeSantis' strategy because he is worried he will lose Primary\".",
">\n\nHe’s just seeing DeSantis’ success with this approach in Florida and instead of running against him - which he’ll most likely lose - he is just trying to steal his tactics and bring DeSantis’ supporters back around to trump.\nIt’s so dumb that it’ll probably work. Or it won’t. It doesn’t matter because for every person (edit - conservative) writing about Trump/DeSantis/Florida’s obsession with genitalia, they’re not talking about the crazy shit going on in The House of Representatives.",
">\n\nWhat an absurd asshole, he's fighting for attention with Desantis, and Trump has absolutely no shame and no low.",
">\n\nPretty much all Republicans",
">\n\nReporters need to hammer home this question: How does attacking trans and gay people improve the lives of Americans? What economic gain is to be had doing this? Where are your fiscal policies? Where is \"infrastructure week\"? Name ONE policy you have that brings economic relief to low income people, you know, your base?",
">\n\nGo after? Is this really the hill these twits want to die on? Cruelty to a tiny minority of Americans that are harming no one? This is just abhorrent.",
">\n\n1: Get stupid, bigoted poor people angry at 'them' so you get their votes.\n2: Get elected, give tax cuts to the wealthy.\n3: Ignore the stupid, bigoted poor people until the next election cycle.",
">\n\nOf course he fucking is.\nThe US Christian Nationalist movement systematically criminalizing our fucking existence and he is giving them what they want.\nThis is not a fucking game. They are about building the legal and social groundwork for classifying sex and gender variation outside cis/heterosexual norms as being inherently sexual.\nThe \"drag bans\", the \"bathroom bills\", the attacks on trans youth and now adult's medical care, the attempts to pull information about LGBTQ but especially trans people from public scools and libraries, and everything else they're doing, they're working towards making the public existence of trans and gender nonconforming people a sex crime.\nThe laws they're trying to pass are so vaguely worded, the existence of trans and gender variant people is being classified as inherently sexual/\"adult\"/obscene/etc. And if they are able to pass these bans on \"performers\" they are absolutely going to use it to attack us in every other area of public life too.\nAfter all, if someone they consider a \"man in a dress\" is legally classified as an \"adult performer\" when all they're doing is reading Mary Poppins to kids in a library while dressed as the titular character, what exactly does that mean for the person whom they consider a \"man in a dress\" who is just trying to go to her job as a 5th grade Music teacher? Or hell, just trying to go to the grocery store?\nThey don't actually distinguish between \"drag queen\" and \"trans woman\", or between \"performance\" and \"just going about our lives\". They see trans and GNC people's existence as inherently sexual, and our clothing and gender presentation as the expression of a perverse fetish. If we are anywhere in public where a child might possibly see us, even if it's standing in line at the 7-11, they are claiming that this is pedophilic grooming through forcibly exposing children to degenerate sexual activity.\nAnd they aren't going to fucking stop voluntarily. There is no goddamn line where they will decide they've gone far enough, except the point at which we no longer exist.",
">\n\nRemember when Trump said that he would do everything to protect LGBT communities from violence? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.",
">\n\nThey have nothing else to contribute so they have to scare their voters",
">\n\nAhhh yes... Trans people. Finally, someone's getting down to the real problems this country has 🙄",
">\n\nFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a socialist.\nThen they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a trade unionist.\nThen they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—\n Because I was not a Jew.\nThen they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.",
">\n\nThere must be an external reason for him to run because clearly not many are interested in his bullshit anymore",
">\n\nAvoiding prison.",
">\n\nHe's still under the impression that being an officially-declared presidential candidate will give him immunity from prosecution. \nAnd I'm terrified that he might be right.",
">\n\nWhomever keeps saying the phrase \"The Republicans couldn't possibly be any more awful.\" really needs to stop.",
">\n\nThen he best give up the makeup, the girdles, the hair dye and toupee and the tanning bed. Just saying. 🙄",
">\n\nShoe lifts too",
">\n\nTerrible person vows to be even more terrible if given power.",
">\n\nElect me. I will go after orange men.",
">\n\n\nI’ve looked into moving to Canada but there’s no real asylum seeking for US queer people yet.\n\nI'm hoping this will begin within the next few years if Trump or DeSantis wins in 2024. America is going to be a dangerous place for anyone not white, heterosexual, cisgender male, and the right kind of Christian with a 1950s view of social structure.",
">\n\nThis is some really dangerous shit. Unfortunately very few people will see this because it doesn’t directly affect them.",
">\n\nRepublicans literally identified the smallest minority group they could find so that they could drum up hate without backlash from the target group.",
">\n\nSomeone needs to snipe this asshole already.",
">\n\nThe anti trans stuff is a part of the anti public school stuff. They have convinced their sheep that the goal of trans people is to ´groom’ their lambs through government schools. CRT hokum is part of it too.",
">\n\nHe’s just mad that his trans brother committed suicide.",
">\n\ngross.... this guy is a life long loser, grasping at straws, sad.",
">\n\nDon’t they have a guy who has dressed up in drag who just got elected to the House of Rep.? They seem fine with him, as long as he supports and votes for their fascist agenda.",
">\n\nWho is keeping a list of conservatives “top priorities”?\nDitch healthcare \nend social security \nlimit education through banning books and strict whitey friendly curriculums (i’m very white btw)\nban green energy \nsnuggle up to dictators and acquire one of your very own\nend drag shows (except for rudy, he can totally keep on)\nno more bare shoulders and ankles \npregnancies, lots and lots of pregnancies \n30% tax for you, no tax for wealthy \ndouble our votes by counting them twice and making votes against us illegal \nadd the occupation of “serf” to the national census \ni’m sure i forgot a few hundred idiotic ideas they have",
">\n\nOh please! President Tiny Hands wouldn’t even have to tuck. So, he would have to resign under his own stupid policy.",
">\n\nHate is really all they have.",
">\n\nHe really does seem to be transfixed on this issue.",
">\n\nThere's absolutely nothing big government about promising to use government to restrict civil liberties based on gender. Nope, nothing at all.",
">\n\nShould this be considered a hate crime now?",
">\n\nHave to have an ‘enemy’. Now he is too weak politically to make one of his opponents the enemy so he picks one of the smallest marginalized groups. What an asshole.",
">\n\nWhen you go after you will have to go through the majority of Americans who will not stand for your so called targeting.",
">\n\nI wonder what these Neanderthals are going to do when they find out there are biologically six human sexes (which would not result in the death of the fetus), not two.\nLet me put that a different way: God, who by definition can not make a mistake, chooses to order mankind's chromosomes such that there are six human sexes, not two. Amen.\nAnd if they can't understand sex, they sure as shit can't understand gender.",
">\n\nI really don't understand this at all. Who on the right is gunning for transgendered people?? Is this something coming from right wing media???",
">\n\nAny and every Republican politician that wants the bigot vote.",
">\n\nOut of all the problems this country has, trans are pretty far down on the list, if on the list at all, IMHO. How about working to lift us all up instead of finding groups to put down?",
">\n\nHow’s he going to verify? Grab them by the privates?",
">\n\nLuckily he doesn't stand a chance and will never hold the levers of power again.",
">\n\nthat doesn't matter. this is republican policy now",
">\n\nA republican taking an active stance against a minority, whoda thunk it?!",
">\n\nHe knows his base and how to attract certain other demographics who would vote Dem but love to hate on bays and Trans just like right wingers do.",
">\n\nhe already did while president. this isnt news",
">\n\nPathetic attempt to steal back votes from the religious right for DeSantis. Not gonna happen.",
">\n\nPick a minority and treat them as other than human. Seems that happened before..",
">\n\nHe’s such an ass.",
">\n\nGood thing he won't be elected, then...",
">\n\nSomeone ask trump what about raising taxes on rich people like yourself?",
">\n\nThat'll bring down inflation for sure...",
">\n\nThe morality police to the rescue! Brought to you by the Carl's Jr. Church of latter-day saints for Trump.",
">\n\nWhat is he going to do? Put them in camps? Or is that Ron DeathSantas goal?",
">\n\nHe really just wants to grab them by the....",
">\n\nProof if you need it that even Christians don't believe in heaven and hell.",
">\n\njust when you thought that trump couldn't possible be a bigger piece of shit.",
">\n\nWho cares what this irrelevant has-been has to say. He's like that turd that refuses to flush and keeps coming back up.",
">\n\nNothing says winning like targeting a minority group and everyone around them. What should concern everyone is where does this go. Start with one group and systematically go after every other one to instill hate and fear where none should exist all to manipulate the worst in people. Trump is a raging POS... \nI am sure this will help fix all of the issues facing Americans... /s",
">\n\nWow. What a POS. I stopped reading at taking away rights.",
">\n\nTrans people everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief as he will not be re-elected ever 🤣",
">\n\nwhat a massive waste of time, resources, if not just for the evil nature of it....",
">\n\nWhat does that suppose to mean? lol",
">\n\nRichard Nixon's Head : Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!\n[laughs]",
">\n\nqueer hate. always a winner with the right. and guns. the imminent threat that libs will take your guns. And babies. Happy little babies killed by libs for fun and profit. And Jesus..\nBecause if they talked about what they really do, lower taxes for the rich while cutting benefits for the non rich, would not be a big seller.",
">\n\nLet’s not get him re-elected",
">\n\nHopping on DeSantis’s bandwagon. \nSad. Low energy stuff right there ya orange fuck knuckle.",
">\n\nNothing would please these hateful intolerant right wingers more!",
">\n\nIf only we could prove that Trump and DeSantis are trans.",
">\n\nHe is full of hate and gets evangelical money",
">\n\nThis is the most important thing going on inside this dumbass’s head?\nOr is he just trying to out stupid de Santis, Abbott and Lake?",
">\n\nHe’d promise to kill his son if he thought that would get him elected.",
">\n\ntbf some of us have horrible children",
">\n\nOk yup. Checks out",
">\n\nWhat do you have to say now Caitlyn Jenner? 🤔",
">\n\nI thought he was all about trans people and supported them and loved them and such. \nHuh. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else.",
">\n\nBut let’s not worry about fixing the economy…",
">\n\nI wish doj would go after him and finally hold him accountable for all of his crimes.",
">\n\nYeah! How dare they try and survive in a manner that is healthy for their own mental and physical well-being!",
">\n\nThank GOD Trump the Rapist will ensure that the American government will target and attack more of the most persecuted and marginalized people on earth. Imagine that there could some kind of minority persecution that the GOP would allow us to not partake in? Fear of missing out is a terminal illness, friends, and we must all thank his Kremlin-serving ass for saving us from certain doom.\nBuy Snacky S’mores.",
">\n\n“America, home of the free, except this group of people.”",
">\n\nWhat, he’s had enough of going after hookers and porn stars",
">\n\nIsn’t this already one of the few confirmed planks on the republican platform aka the “we hate your freedom” platform?",
">\n\nReason number 5,436 not to elect him!",
">\n\nSo he is going after Americans??",
">\n\nStop giving this fucking tomato looking ass a platform.",
">\n\nHello FBI i need to report a hate crime in it's planification phase.",
">\n\n“Trump promises even more hate for fellow Americans if he is re-elected”",
">\n\nStop giving the dumpster fire oxygen.",
">\n\nstop downplaying calls for genocide",
">\n\nStop it with trump articles already. He’s never going to be re-elected. And no one sane gives a fiddlers fart what he thinks!",
">\n\nHe's an officially-declared candidate for president and winning in some early polls. He still clearly commands a lot of support and loyalty in one of our two major political parties. As despicable and horrifying as he is, that means that what he says and does is newsworthy.",
">\n\nMaybe cause he believes in the things most Americans still do. Democracy is majority rule and it’s being destroyed by the liberal minority. Liberalism is not what America was built on. We’re not better off as a society just look at how screwed up our country is because of it. They banned cigarette ads on TV years ago but it’s ok for two gay men kissing on tv over HIV meds. It offends people but is still televised. You have a segment of our population probably less than half of one percent in America being given a larger voice than they should have. Ask yourself why he’s so popular by the majority in America. If Trump kept his whining mouth shut Biden would of never been elected.",
">\n\nWhat's wrong with two gay men kissing on TV?",
">\n\nLess time to be smoking cigarettes? 🤷🏻♀️",
">\n\nWhat about men with vaginas in men’s locker room and sports?",
">\n\nI don't like that",
">\n\nSo what is your solution",
">\n\nMy preferred solution is to have a private room(single person) readily available so they can use it. \nTrans people can have their own sports competition just like we have Paralympic.",
">\n\nYou do understand there’s not like. Enough of them. To do that. Everyone would rather have private locker rooms. Why is this a problem. Why is it okay to have a bunch of same sex children naked together and be super uncomfortable. \nSeems like it’s not a trans issue and more of an old design is terrible issue. Stalls to the floor. No more required nonsense locker rooms. Sounds great to me."
] |
This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address. | [] |
>
"DO NOT AIM AT SELF" | [
"This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address."
] |
>
"DO NOT SHOOT EX GIRLFRIEND"
"BROWN PEOPLE ARE NOT TARGET PRACTICE"
"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR" | [
"This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address.",
">\n\n\"DO NOT AIM AT SELF\""
] |
>
"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR"
Tell that to the taliban | [
"This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address.",
">\n\n\"DO NOT AIM AT SELF\"",
">\n\n\"DO NOT SHOOT EX GIRLFRIEND\" \n\"BROWN PEOPLE ARE NOT TARGET PRACTICE\" \n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\""
] |
>
Taliban won? 😂🤣😂 | [
"This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address.",
">\n\n\"DO NOT AIM AT SELF\"",
">\n\n\"DO NOT SHOOT EX GIRLFRIEND\" \n\"BROWN PEOPLE ARE NOT TARGET PRACTICE\" \n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"",
">\n\n\n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"\n\nTell that to the taliban"
] |
>
Are they in power and did we pull out? | [
"This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address.",
">\n\n\"DO NOT AIM AT SELF\"",
">\n\n\"DO NOT SHOOT EX GIRLFRIEND\" \n\"BROWN PEOPLE ARE NOT TARGET PRACTICE\" \n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"",
">\n\n\n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"\n\nTell that to the taliban",
">\n\nTaliban won? 😂🤣😂"
] |
>
We killed Osama Bin ladin years ago. The elite decided they made enough money on the 20 year war where we literally suppressed the Taliban into submission.
What would have been a victory ? staying there 40 years? Does that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back? | [
"This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address.",
">\n\n\"DO NOT AIM AT SELF\"",
">\n\n\"DO NOT SHOOT EX GIRLFRIEND\" \n\"BROWN PEOPLE ARE NOT TARGET PRACTICE\" \n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"",
">\n\n\n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"\n\nTell that to the taliban",
">\n\nTaliban won? 😂🤣😂",
">\n\nAre they in power and did we pull out?"
] |
>
We killed Osama Bin ladin years ago.
His death was not the end of the taliban. They just appointed a new leader.
What would have been a victory ?
Not having the taliban back in control.
Does that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?
No we deleted the nazi party. The nazis didn't take control again. It said that you need to have this explained to you. | [
"This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address.",
">\n\n\"DO NOT AIM AT SELF\"",
">\n\n\"DO NOT SHOOT EX GIRLFRIEND\" \n\"BROWN PEOPLE ARE NOT TARGET PRACTICE\" \n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"",
">\n\n\n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"\n\nTell that to the taliban",
">\n\nTaliban won? 😂🤣😂",
">\n\nAre they in power and did we pull out?",
">\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago. The elite decided they made enough money on the 20 year war where we literally suppressed the Taliban into submission. \nWhat would have been a victory ? staying there 40 years? Does that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?"
] |
>
Taliban didn't win anything, they came back after the US military stopped caring. Tell me at what point did the Taliban pushed back the US military with superior force?
It's like a small woman trying to hit a big guy. When he just leaves and not fight back, does the woman get to declare victory?
Did the fly buzzing around my face win the battle? | [
"This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address.",
">\n\n\"DO NOT AIM AT SELF\"",
">\n\n\"DO NOT SHOOT EX GIRLFRIEND\" \n\"BROWN PEOPLE ARE NOT TARGET PRACTICE\" \n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"",
">\n\n\n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"\n\nTell that to the taliban",
">\n\nTaliban won? 😂🤣😂",
">\n\nAre they in power and did we pull out?",
">\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago. The elite decided they made enough money on the 20 year war where we literally suppressed the Taliban into submission. \nWhat would have been a victory ? staying there 40 years? Does that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?",
">\n\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago.\n\nHis death was not the end of the taliban. They just appointed a new leader.\n\nWhat would have been a victory ?\n\nNot having the taliban back in control.\n\nDoes that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?\n\nNo we deleted the nazi party. The nazis didn't take control again. It said that you need to have this explained to you."
] |
>
Two people are fighting on top of a hill, and whoever falls to the bottom of the hill, loses.
A Big Guy and Small Guy start fighting over it. BG breaks SG's arm and dislocates a knee. SG limps away into a nice and cozy hole on the side of the hill and starts throwing rocks at BG from inside. BG tries to get in but can't. So he starts patrolling the hill, waiting for his adversary to come out and fight. Occasionally SG does come out and throws more rocks at BG, but goes into hiding before he can be caught. Eventually, BG gets tired and walks off the hill and back to his home.
Who won? | [
"This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address.",
">\n\n\"DO NOT AIM AT SELF\"",
">\n\n\"DO NOT SHOOT EX GIRLFRIEND\" \n\"BROWN PEOPLE ARE NOT TARGET PRACTICE\" \n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"",
">\n\n\n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"\n\nTell that to the taliban",
">\n\nTaliban won? 😂🤣😂",
">\n\nAre they in power and did we pull out?",
">\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago. The elite decided they made enough money on the 20 year war where we literally suppressed the Taliban into submission. \nWhat would have been a victory ? staying there 40 years? Does that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?",
">\n\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago.\n\nHis death was not the end of the taliban. They just appointed a new leader.\n\nWhat would have been a victory ?\n\nNot having the taliban back in control.\n\nDoes that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?\n\nNo we deleted the nazi party. The nazis didn't take control again. It said that you need to have this explained to you.",
">\n\nTaliban didn't win anything, they came back after the US military stopped caring. Tell me at what point did the Taliban pushed back the US military with superior force?\nIt's like a small woman trying to hit a big guy. When he just leaves and not fight back, does the woman get to declare victory?\nDid the fly buzzing around my face win the battle?"
] |
>
Taliban got stomped for 20 fucking years. They took over when the big kid left the playground. I bet you thought you sounded smart.
I know this is just reactionary tears because Biden pulled out even though Trump was going to anyway. It wasn't even a war anymore, it was an occupation. | [
"This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address.",
">\n\n\"DO NOT AIM AT SELF\"",
">\n\n\"DO NOT SHOOT EX GIRLFRIEND\" \n\"BROWN PEOPLE ARE NOT TARGET PRACTICE\" \n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"",
">\n\n\n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"\n\nTell that to the taliban",
">\n\nTaliban won? 😂🤣😂",
">\n\nAre they in power and did we pull out?",
">\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago. The elite decided they made enough money on the 20 year war where we literally suppressed the Taliban into submission. \nWhat would have been a victory ? staying there 40 years? Does that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?",
">\n\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago.\n\nHis death was not the end of the taliban. They just appointed a new leader.\n\nWhat would have been a victory ?\n\nNot having the taliban back in control.\n\nDoes that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?\n\nNo we deleted the nazi party. The nazis didn't take control again. It said that you need to have this explained to you.",
">\n\nTaliban didn't win anything, they came back after the US military stopped caring. Tell me at what point did the Taliban pushed back the US military with superior force?\nIt's like a small woman trying to hit a big guy. When he just leaves and not fight back, does the woman get to declare victory?\nDid the fly buzzing around my face win the battle?",
">\n\nTwo people are fighting on top of a hill, and whoever falls to the bottom of the hill, loses.\nA Big Guy and Small Guy start fighting over it. BG breaks SG's arm and dislocates a knee. SG limps away into a nice and cozy hole on the side of the hill and starts throwing rocks at BG from inside. BG tries to get in but can't. So he starts patrolling the hill, waiting for his adversary to come out and fight. Occasionally SG does come out and throws more rocks at BG, but goes into hiding before he can be caught. Eventually, BG gets tired and walks off the hill and back to his home.\nWho won?"
] |
>
I'm happy they're doing this, but I think a big part of this is letting people know it is OK to hide or just totally get rid of your gun if it becomes a problem. Guns don't protect you in this situation, they just make you more likely to go through with it. | [
"This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address.",
">\n\n\"DO NOT AIM AT SELF\"",
">\n\n\"DO NOT SHOOT EX GIRLFRIEND\" \n\"BROWN PEOPLE ARE NOT TARGET PRACTICE\" \n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"",
">\n\n\n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"\n\nTell that to the taliban",
">\n\nTaliban won? 😂🤣😂",
">\n\nAre they in power and did we pull out?",
">\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago. The elite decided they made enough money on the 20 year war where we literally suppressed the Taliban into submission. \nWhat would have been a victory ? staying there 40 years? Does that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?",
">\n\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago.\n\nHis death was not the end of the taliban. They just appointed a new leader.\n\nWhat would have been a victory ?\n\nNot having the taliban back in control.\n\nDoes that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?\n\nNo we deleted the nazi party. The nazis didn't take control again. It said that you need to have this explained to you.",
">\n\nTaliban didn't win anything, they came back after the US military stopped caring. Tell me at what point did the Taliban pushed back the US military with superior force?\nIt's like a small woman trying to hit a big guy. When he just leaves and not fight back, does the woman get to declare victory?\nDid the fly buzzing around my face win the battle?",
">\n\nTwo people are fighting on top of a hill, and whoever falls to the bottom of the hill, loses.\nA Big Guy and Small Guy start fighting over it. BG breaks SG's arm and dislocates a knee. SG limps away into a nice and cozy hole on the side of the hill and starts throwing rocks at BG from inside. BG tries to get in but can't. So he starts patrolling the hill, waiting for his adversary to come out and fight. Occasionally SG does come out and throws more rocks at BG, but goes into hiding before he can be caught. Eventually, BG gets tired and walks off the hill and back to his home.\nWho won?",
">\n\nTaliban got stomped for 20 fucking years. They took over when the big kid left the playground. I bet you thought you sounded smart. \nI know this is just reactionary tears because Biden pulled out even though Trump was going to anyway. It wasn't even a war anymore, it was an occupation."
] |
>
How is this a bad thing? | [
"This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address.",
">\n\n\"DO NOT AIM AT SELF\"",
">\n\n\"DO NOT SHOOT EX GIRLFRIEND\" \n\"BROWN PEOPLE ARE NOT TARGET PRACTICE\" \n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"",
">\n\n\n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"\n\nTell that to the taliban",
">\n\nTaliban won? 😂🤣😂",
">\n\nAre they in power and did we pull out?",
">\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago. The elite decided they made enough money on the 20 year war where we literally suppressed the Taliban into submission. \nWhat would have been a victory ? staying there 40 years? Does that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?",
">\n\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago.\n\nHis death was not the end of the taliban. They just appointed a new leader.\n\nWhat would have been a victory ?\n\nNot having the taliban back in control.\n\nDoes that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?\n\nNo we deleted the nazi party. The nazis didn't take control again. It said that you need to have this explained to you.",
">\n\nTaliban didn't win anything, they came back after the US military stopped caring. Tell me at what point did the Taliban pushed back the US military with superior force?\nIt's like a small woman trying to hit a big guy. When he just leaves and not fight back, does the woman get to declare victory?\nDid the fly buzzing around my face win the battle?",
">\n\nTwo people are fighting on top of a hill, and whoever falls to the bottom of the hill, loses.\nA Big Guy and Small Guy start fighting over it. BG breaks SG's arm and dislocates a knee. SG limps away into a nice and cozy hole on the side of the hill and starts throwing rocks at BG from inside. BG tries to get in but can't. So he starts patrolling the hill, waiting for his adversary to come out and fight. Occasionally SG does come out and throws more rocks at BG, but goes into hiding before he can be caught. Eventually, BG gets tired and walks off the hill and back to his home.\nWho won?",
">\n\nTaliban got stomped for 20 fucking years. They took over when the big kid left the playground. I bet you thought you sounded smart. \nI know this is just reactionary tears because Biden pulled out even though Trump was going to anyway. It wasn't even a war anymore, it was an occupation.",
">\n\nI'm happy they're doing this, but I think a big part of this is letting people know it is OK to hide or just totally get rid of your gun if it becomes a problem. Guns don't protect you in this situation, they just make you more likely to go through with it."
] |
>
Who said it was bad? | [
"This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address.",
">\n\n\"DO NOT AIM AT SELF\"",
">\n\n\"DO NOT SHOOT EX GIRLFRIEND\" \n\"BROWN PEOPLE ARE NOT TARGET PRACTICE\" \n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"",
">\n\n\n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"\n\nTell that to the taliban",
">\n\nTaliban won? 😂🤣😂",
">\n\nAre they in power and did we pull out?",
">\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago. The elite decided they made enough money on the 20 year war where we literally suppressed the Taliban into submission. \nWhat would have been a victory ? staying there 40 years? Does that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?",
">\n\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago.\n\nHis death was not the end of the taliban. They just appointed a new leader.\n\nWhat would have been a victory ?\n\nNot having the taliban back in control.\n\nDoes that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?\n\nNo we deleted the nazi party. The nazis didn't take control again. It said that you need to have this explained to you.",
">\n\nTaliban didn't win anything, they came back after the US military stopped caring. Tell me at what point did the Taliban pushed back the US military with superior force?\nIt's like a small woman trying to hit a big guy. When he just leaves and not fight back, does the woman get to declare victory?\nDid the fly buzzing around my face win the battle?",
">\n\nTwo people are fighting on top of a hill, and whoever falls to the bottom of the hill, loses.\nA Big Guy and Small Guy start fighting over it. BG breaks SG's arm and dislocates a knee. SG limps away into a nice and cozy hole on the side of the hill and starts throwing rocks at BG from inside. BG tries to get in but can't. So he starts patrolling the hill, waiting for his adversary to come out and fight. Occasionally SG does come out and throws more rocks at BG, but goes into hiding before he can be caught. Eventually, BG gets tired and walks off the hill and back to his home.\nWho won?",
">\n\nTaliban got stomped for 20 fucking years. They took over when the big kid left the playground. I bet you thought you sounded smart. \nI know this is just reactionary tears because Biden pulled out even though Trump was going to anyway. It wasn't even a war anymore, it was an occupation.",
">\n\nI'm happy they're doing this, but I think a big part of this is letting people know it is OK to hide or just totally get rid of your gun if it becomes a problem. Guns don't protect you in this situation, they just make you more likely to go through with it.",
">\n\nHow is this a bad thing?"
] |
>
It’s posted in “nottheonion” | [
"This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address.",
">\n\n\"DO NOT AIM AT SELF\"",
">\n\n\"DO NOT SHOOT EX GIRLFRIEND\" \n\"BROWN PEOPLE ARE NOT TARGET PRACTICE\" \n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"",
">\n\n\n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"\n\nTell that to the taliban",
">\n\nTaliban won? 😂🤣😂",
">\n\nAre they in power and did we pull out?",
">\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago. The elite decided they made enough money on the 20 year war where we literally suppressed the Taliban into submission. \nWhat would have been a victory ? staying there 40 years? Does that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?",
">\n\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago.\n\nHis death was not the end of the taliban. They just appointed a new leader.\n\nWhat would have been a victory ?\n\nNot having the taliban back in control.\n\nDoes that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?\n\nNo we deleted the nazi party. The nazis didn't take control again. It said that you need to have this explained to you.",
">\n\nTaliban didn't win anything, they came back after the US military stopped caring. Tell me at what point did the Taliban pushed back the US military with superior force?\nIt's like a small woman trying to hit a big guy. When he just leaves and not fight back, does the woman get to declare victory?\nDid the fly buzzing around my face win the battle?",
">\n\nTwo people are fighting on top of a hill, and whoever falls to the bottom of the hill, loses.\nA Big Guy and Small Guy start fighting over it. BG breaks SG's arm and dislocates a knee. SG limps away into a nice and cozy hole on the side of the hill and starts throwing rocks at BG from inside. BG tries to get in but can't. So he starts patrolling the hill, waiting for his adversary to come out and fight. Occasionally SG does come out and throws more rocks at BG, but goes into hiding before he can be caught. Eventually, BG gets tired and walks off the hill and back to his home.\nWho won?",
">\n\nTaliban got stomped for 20 fucking years. They took over when the big kid left the playground. I bet you thought you sounded smart. \nI know this is just reactionary tears because Biden pulled out even though Trump was going to anyway. It wasn't even a war anymore, it was an occupation.",
">\n\nI'm happy they're doing this, but I think a big part of this is letting people know it is OK to hide or just totally get rid of your gun if it becomes a problem. Guns don't protect you in this situation, they just make you more likely to go through with it.",
">\n\nHow is this a bad thing?",
">\n\nWho said it was bad?"
] |
>
How is this bad? Suicide prevention training is a good thing. We want people to seek help. Why not seek help from a community your already part of if your a gun owner? | [
"This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address.",
">\n\n\"DO NOT AIM AT SELF\"",
">\n\n\"DO NOT SHOOT EX GIRLFRIEND\" \n\"BROWN PEOPLE ARE NOT TARGET PRACTICE\" \n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"",
">\n\n\n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"\n\nTell that to the taliban",
">\n\nTaliban won? 😂🤣😂",
">\n\nAre they in power and did we pull out?",
">\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago. The elite decided they made enough money on the 20 year war where we literally suppressed the Taliban into submission. \nWhat would have been a victory ? staying there 40 years? Does that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?",
">\n\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago.\n\nHis death was not the end of the taliban. They just appointed a new leader.\n\nWhat would have been a victory ?\n\nNot having the taliban back in control.\n\nDoes that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?\n\nNo we deleted the nazi party. The nazis didn't take control again. It said that you need to have this explained to you.",
">\n\nTaliban didn't win anything, they came back after the US military stopped caring. Tell me at what point did the Taliban pushed back the US military with superior force?\nIt's like a small woman trying to hit a big guy. When he just leaves and not fight back, does the woman get to declare victory?\nDid the fly buzzing around my face win the battle?",
">\n\nTwo people are fighting on top of a hill, and whoever falls to the bottom of the hill, loses.\nA Big Guy and Small Guy start fighting over it. BG breaks SG's arm and dislocates a knee. SG limps away into a nice and cozy hole on the side of the hill and starts throwing rocks at BG from inside. BG tries to get in but can't. So he starts patrolling the hill, waiting for his adversary to come out and fight. Occasionally SG does come out and throws more rocks at BG, but goes into hiding before he can be caught. Eventually, BG gets tired and walks off the hill and back to his home.\nWho won?",
">\n\nTaliban got stomped for 20 fucking years. They took over when the big kid left the playground. I bet you thought you sounded smart. \nI know this is just reactionary tears because Biden pulled out even though Trump was going to anyway. It wasn't even a war anymore, it was an occupation.",
">\n\nI'm happy they're doing this, but I think a big part of this is letting people know it is OK to hide or just totally get rid of your gun if it becomes a problem. Guns don't protect you in this situation, they just make you more likely to go through with it.",
">\n\nHow is this a bad thing?",
">\n\nWho said it was bad?",
">\n\nIt’s posted in “nottheonion”"
] |
>
The training is also for recognizing signs in people around you and learning how to help them | [
"This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address.",
">\n\n\"DO NOT AIM AT SELF\"",
">\n\n\"DO NOT SHOOT EX GIRLFRIEND\" \n\"BROWN PEOPLE ARE NOT TARGET PRACTICE\" \n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"",
">\n\n\n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"\n\nTell that to the taliban",
">\n\nTaliban won? 😂🤣😂",
">\n\nAre they in power and did we pull out?",
">\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago. The elite decided they made enough money on the 20 year war where we literally suppressed the Taliban into submission. \nWhat would have been a victory ? staying there 40 years? Does that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?",
">\n\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago.\n\nHis death was not the end of the taliban. They just appointed a new leader.\n\nWhat would have been a victory ?\n\nNot having the taliban back in control.\n\nDoes that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?\n\nNo we deleted the nazi party. The nazis didn't take control again. It said that you need to have this explained to you.",
">\n\nTaliban didn't win anything, they came back after the US military stopped caring. Tell me at what point did the Taliban pushed back the US military with superior force?\nIt's like a small woman trying to hit a big guy. When he just leaves and not fight back, does the woman get to declare victory?\nDid the fly buzzing around my face win the battle?",
">\n\nTwo people are fighting on top of a hill, and whoever falls to the bottom of the hill, loses.\nA Big Guy and Small Guy start fighting over it. BG breaks SG's arm and dislocates a knee. SG limps away into a nice and cozy hole on the side of the hill and starts throwing rocks at BG from inside. BG tries to get in but can't. So he starts patrolling the hill, waiting for his adversary to come out and fight. Occasionally SG does come out and throws more rocks at BG, but goes into hiding before he can be caught. Eventually, BG gets tired and walks off the hill and back to his home.\nWho won?",
">\n\nTaliban got stomped for 20 fucking years. They took over when the big kid left the playground. I bet you thought you sounded smart. \nI know this is just reactionary tears because Biden pulled out even though Trump was going to anyway. It wasn't even a war anymore, it was an occupation.",
">\n\nI'm happy they're doing this, but I think a big part of this is letting people know it is OK to hide or just totally get rid of your gun if it becomes a problem. Guns don't protect you in this situation, they just make you more likely to go through with it.",
">\n\nHow is this a bad thing?",
">\n\nWho said it was bad?",
">\n\nIt’s posted in “nottheonion”",
">\n\nHow is this bad? Suicide prevention training is a good thing. We want people to seek help. Why not seek help from a community your already part of if your a gun owner?"
] |
>
Good. If anyone’s gonna do it better be the gun people. At least somebody is helping. Feel like we want to ridicule someone because we don’t agree with there ideology even though they are helping people. | [
"This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address.",
">\n\n\"DO NOT AIM AT SELF\"",
">\n\n\"DO NOT SHOOT EX GIRLFRIEND\" \n\"BROWN PEOPLE ARE NOT TARGET PRACTICE\" \n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"",
">\n\n\n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"\n\nTell that to the taliban",
">\n\nTaliban won? 😂🤣😂",
">\n\nAre they in power and did we pull out?",
">\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago. The elite decided they made enough money on the 20 year war where we literally suppressed the Taliban into submission. \nWhat would have been a victory ? staying there 40 years? Does that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?",
">\n\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago.\n\nHis death was not the end of the taliban. They just appointed a new leader.\n\nWhat would have been a victory ?\n\nNot having the taliban back in control.\n\nDoes that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?\n\nNo we deleted the nazi party. The nazis didn't take control again. It said that you need to have this explained to you.",
">\n\nTaliban didn't win anything, they came back after the US military stopped caring. Tell me at what point did the Taliban pushed back the US military with superior force?\nIt's like a small woman trying to hit a big guy. When he just leaves and not fight back, does the woman get to declare victory?\nDid the fly buzzing around my face win the battle?",
">\n\nTwo people are fighting on top of a hill, and whoever falls to the bottom of the hill, loses.\nA Big Guy and Small Guy start fighting over it. BG breaks SG's arm and dislocates a knee. SG limps away into a nice and cozy hole on the side of the hill and starts throwing rocks at BG from inside. BG tries to get in but can't. So he starts patrolling the hill, waiting for his adversary to come out and fight. Occasionally SG does come out and throws more rocks at BG, but goes into hiding before he can be caught. Eventually, BG gets tired and walks off the hill and back to his home.\nWho won?",
">\n\nTaliban got stomped for 20 fucking years. They took over when the big kid left the playground. I bet you thought you sounded smart. \nI know this is just reactionary tears because Biden pulled out even though Trump was going to anyway. It wasn't even a war anymore, it was an occupation.",
">\n\nI'm happy they're doing this, but I think a big part of this is letting people know it is OK to hide or just totally get rid of your gun if it becomes a problem. Guns don't protect you in this situation, they just make you more likely to go through with it.",
">\n\nHow is this a bad thing?",
">\n\nWho said it was bad?",
">\n\nIt’s posted in “nottheonion”",
">\n\nHow is this bad? Suicide prevention training is a good thing. We want people to seek help. Why not seek help from a community your already part of if your a gun owner?",
">\n\nThe training is also for recognizing signs in people around you and learning how to help them"
] |
>
Do "murder prevention training" next! | [
"This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address.",
">\n\n\"DO NOT AIM AT SELF\"",
">\n\n\"DO NOT SHOOT EX GIRLFRIEND\" \n\"BROWN PEOPLE ARE NOT TARGET PRACTICE\" \n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"",
">\n\n\n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"\n\nTell that to the taliban",
">\n\nTaliban won? 😂🤣😂",
">\n\nAre they in power and did we pull out?",
">\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago. The elite decided they made enough money on the 20 year war where we literally suppressed the Taliban into submission. \nWhat would have been a victory ? staying there 40 years? Does that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?",
">\n\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago.\n\nHis death was not the end of the taliban. They just appointed a new leader.\n\nWhat would have been a victory ?\n\nNot having the taliban back in control.\n\nDoes that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?\n\nNo we deleted the nazi party. The nazis didn't take control again. It said that you need to have this explained to you.",
">\n\nTaliban didn't win anything, they came back after the US military stopped caring. Tell me at what point did the Taliban pushed back the US military with superior force?\nIt's like a small woman trying to hit a big guy. When he just leaves and not fight back, does the woman get to declare victory?\nDid the fly buzzing around my face win the battle?",
">\n\nTwo people are fighting on top of a hill, and whoever falls to the bottom of the hill, loses.\nA Big Guy and Small Guy start fighting over it. BG breaks SG's arm and dislocates a knee. SG limps away into a nice and cozy hole on the side of the hill and starts throwing rocks at BG from inside. BG tries to get in but can't. So he starts patrolling the hill, waiting for his adversary to come out and fight. Occasionally SG does come out and throws more rocks at BG, but goes into hiding before he can be caught. Eventually, BG gets tired and walks off the hill and back to his home.\nWho won?",
">\n\nTaliban got stomped for 20 fucking years. They took over when the big kid left the playground. I bet you thought you sounded smart. \nI know this is just reactionary tears because Biden pulled out even though Trump was going to anyway. It wasn't even a war anymore, it was an occupation.",
">\n\nI'm happy they're doing this, but I think a big part of this is letting people know it is OK to hide or just totally get rid of your gun if it becomes a problem. Guns don't protect you in this situation, they just make you more likely to go through with it.",
">\n\nHow is this a bad thing?",
">\n\nWho said it was bad?",
">\n\nIt’s posted in “nottheonion”",
">\n\nHow is this bad? Suicide prevention training is a good thing. We want people to seek help. Why not seek help from a community your already part of if your a gun owner?",
">\n\nThe training is also for recognizing signs in people around you and learning how to help them",
">\n\nGood. If anyone’s gonna do it better be the gun people. At least somebody is helping. Feel like we want to ridicule someone because we don’t agree with there ideology even though they are helping people."
] |
>
Do murder prevention and throw away your guns first. | [
"This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address.",
">\n\n\"DO NOT AIM AT SELF\"",
">\n\n\"DO NOT SHOOT EX GIRLFRIEND\" \n\"BROWN PEOPLE ARE NOT TARGET PRACTICE\" \n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"",
">\n\n\n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"\n\nTell that to the taliban",
">\n\nTaliban won? 😂🤣😂",
">\n\nAre they in power and did we pull out?",
">\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago. The elite decided they made enough money on the 20 year war where we literally suppressed the Taliban into submission. \nWhat would have been a victory ? staying there 40 years? Does that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?",
">\n\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago.\n\nHis death was not the end of the taliban. They just appointed a new leader.\n\nWhat would have been a victory ?\n\nNot having the taliban back in control.\n\nDoes that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?\n\nNo we deleted the nazi party. The nazis didn't take control again. It said that you need to have this explained to you.",
">\n\nTaliban didn't win anything, they came back after the US military stopped caring. Tell me at what point did the Taliban pushed back the US military with superior force?\nIt's like a small woman trying to hit a big guy. When he just leaves and not fight back, does the woman get to declare victory?\nDid the fly buzzing around my face win the battle?",
">\n\nTwo people are fighting on top of a hill, and whoever falls to the bottom of the hill, loses.\nA Big Guy and Small Guy start fighting over it. BG breaks SG's arm and dislocates a knee. SG limps away into a nice and cozy hole on the side of the hill and starts throwing rocks at BG from inside. BG tries to get in but can't. So he starts patrolling the hill, waiting for his adversary to come out and fight. Occasionally SG does come out and throws more rocks at BG, but goes into hiding before he can be caught. Eventually, BG gets tired and walks off the hill and back to his home.\nWho won?",
">\n\nTaliban got stomped for 20 fucking years. They took over when the big kid left the playground. I bet you thought you sounded smart. \nI know this is just reactionary tears because Biden pulled out even though Trump was going to anyway. It wasn't even a war anymore, it was an occupation.",
">\n\nI'm happy they're doing this, but I think a big part of this is letting people know it is OK to hide or just totally get rid of your gun if it becomes a problem. Guns don't protect you in this situation, they just make you more likely to go through with it.",
">\n\nHow is this a bad thing?",
">\n\nWho said it was bad?",
">\n\nIt’s posted in “nottheonion”",
">\n\nHow is this bad? Suicide prevention training is a good thing. We want people to seek help. Why not seek help from a community your already part of if your a gun owner?",
">\n\nThe training is also for recognizing signs in people around you and learning how to help them",
">\n\nGood. If anyone’s gonna do it better be the gun people. At least somebody is helping. Feel like we want to ridicule someone because we don’t agree with there ideology even though they are helping people.",
">\n\nDo \"murder prevention training\" next!"
] |
>
Meanwhile weekly AA meetings will be held at the liquor store down the street | [
"This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address.",
">\n\n\"DO NOT AIM AT SELF\"",
">\n\n\"DO NOT SHOOT EX GIRLFRIEND\" \n\"BROWN PEOPLE ARE NOT TARGET PRACTICE\" \n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"",
">\n\n\n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"\n\nTell that to the taliban",
">\n\nTaliban won? 😂🤣😂",
">\n\nAre they in power and did we pull out?",
">\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago. The elite decided they made enough money on the 20 year war where we literally suppressed the Taliban into submission. \nWhat would have been a victory ? staying there 40 years? Does that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?",
">\n\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago.\n\nHis death was not the end of the taliban. They just appointed a new leader.\n\nWhat would have been a victory ?\n\nNot having the taliban back in control.\n\nDoes that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?\n\nNo we deleted the nazi party. The nazis didn't take control again. It said that you need to have this explained to you.",
">\n\nTaliban didn't win anything, they came back after the US military stopped caring. Tell me at what point did the Taliban pushed back the US military with superior force?\nIt's like a small woman trying to hit a big guy. When he just leaves and not fight back, does the woman get to declare victory?\nDid the fly buzzing around my face win the battle?",
">\n\nTwo people are fighting on top of a hill, and whoever falls to the bottom of the hill, loses.\nA Big Guy and Small Guy start fighting over it. BG breaks SG's arm and dislocates a knee. SG limps away into a nice and cozy hole on the side of the hill and starts throwing rocks at BG from inside. BG tries to get in but can't. So he starts patrolling the hill, waiting for his adversary to come out and fight. Occasionally SG does come out and throws more rocks at BG, but goes into hiding before he can be caught. Eventually, BG gets tired and walks off the hill and back to his home.\nWho won?",
">\n\nTaliban got stomped for 20 fucking years. They took over when the big kid left the playground. I bet you thought you sounded smart. \nI know this is just reactionary tears because Biden pulled out even though Trump was going to anyway. It wasn't even a war anymore, it was an occupation.",
">\n\nI'm happy they're doing this, but I think a big part of this is letting people know it is OK to hide or just totally get rid of your gun if it becomes a problem. Guns don't protect you in this situation, they just make you more likely to go through with it.",
">\n\nHow is this a bad thing?",
">\n\nWho said it was bad?",
">\n\nIt’s posted in “nottheonion”",
">\n\nHow is this bad? Suicide prevention training is a good thing. We want people to seek help. Why not seek help from a community your already part of if your a gun owner?",
">\n\nThe training is also for recognizing signs in people around you and learning how to help them",
">\n\nGood. If anyone’s gonna do it better be the gun people. At least somebody is helping. Feel like we want to ridicule someone because we don’t agree with there ideology even though they are helping people.",
">\n\nDo \"murder prevention training\" next!",
">\n\nDo murder prevention and throw away your guns first."
] |
>
Did you even read the article? Sounds like responsible gun ownership if I ever heard it. | [
"This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address.",
">\n\n\"DO NOT AIM AT SELF\"",
">\n\n\"DO NOT SHOOT EX GIRLFRIEND\" \n\"BROWN PEOPLE ARE NOT TARGET PRACTICE\" \n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"",
">\n\n\n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"\n\nTell that to the taliban",
">\n\nTaliban won? 😂🤣😂",
">\n\nAre they in power and did we pull out?",
">\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago. The elite decided they made enough money on the 20 year war where we literally suppressed the Taliban into submission. \nWhat would have been a victory ? staying there 40 years? Does that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?",
">\n\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago.\n\nHis death was not the end of the taliban. They just appointed a new leader.\n\nWhat would have been a victory ?\n\nNot having the taliban back in control.\n\nDoes that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?\n\nNo we deleted the nazi party. The nazis didn't take control again. It said that you need to have this explained to you.",
">\n\nTaliban didn't win anything, they came back after the US military stopped caring. Tell me at what point did the Taliban pushed back the US military with superior force?\nIt's like a small woman trying to hit a big guy. When he just leaves and not fight back, does the woman get to declare victory?\nDid the fly buzzing around my face win the battle?",
">\n\nTwo people are fighting on top of a hill, and whoever falls to the bottom of the hill, loses.\nA Big Guy and Small Guy start fighting over it. BG breaks SG's arm and dislocates a knee. SG limps away into a nice and cozy hole on the side of the hill and starts throwing rocks at BG from inside. BG tries to get in but can't. So he starts patrolling the hill, waiting for his adversary to come out and fight. Occasionally SG does come out and throws more rocks at BG, but goes into hiding before he can be caught. Eventually, BG gets tired and walks off the hill and back to his home.\nWho won?",
">\n\nTaliban got stomped for 20 fucking years. They took over when the big kid left the playground. I bet you thought you sounded smart. \nI know this is just reactionary tears because Biden pulled out even though Trump was going to anyway. It wasn't even a war anymore, it was an occupation.",
">\n\nI'm happy they're doing this, but I think a big part of this is letting people know it is OK to hide or just totally get rid of your gun if it becomes a problem. Guns don't protect you in this situation, they just make you more likely to go through with it.",
">\n\nHow is this a bad thing?",
">\n\nWho said it was bad?",
">\n\nIt’s posted in “nottheonion”",
">\n\nHow is this bad? Suicide prevention training is a good thing. We want people to seek help. Why not seek help from a community your already part of if your a gun owner?",
">\n\nThe training is also for recognizing signs in people around you and learning how to help them",
">\n\nGood. If anyone’s gonna do it better be the gun people. At least somebody is helping. Feel like we want to ridicule someone because we don’t agree with there ideology even though they are helping people.",
">\n\nDo \"murder prevention training\" next!",
">\n\nDo murder prevention and throw away your guns first.",
">\n\nMeanwhile weekly AA meetings will be held at the liquor store down the street"
] |
>
Of course not. OP posted without context on purpose. | [
"This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address.",
">\n\n\"DO NOT AIM AT SELF\"",
">\n\n\"DO NOT SHOOT EX GIRLFRIEND\" \n\"BROWN PEOPLE ARE NOT TARGET PRACTICE\" \n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"",
">\n\n\n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"\n\nTell that to the taliban",
">\n\nTaliban won? 😂🤣😂",
">\n\nAre they in power and did we pull out?",
">\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago. The elite decided they made enough money on the 20 year war where we literally suppressed the Taliban into submission. \nWhat would have been a victory ? staying there 40 years? Does that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?",
">\n\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago.\n\nHis death was not the end of the taliban. They just appointed a new leader.\n\nWhat would have been a victory ?\n\nNot having the taliban back in control.\n\nDoes that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?\n\nNo we deleted the nazi party. The nazis didn't take control again. It said that you need to have this explained to you.",
">\n\nTaliban didn't win anything, they came back after the US military stopped caring. Tell me at what point did the Taliban pushed back the US military with superior force?\nIt's like a small woman trying to hit a big guy. When he just leaves and not fight back, does the woman get to declare victory?\nDid the fly buzzing around my face win the battle?",
">\n\nTwo people are fighting on top of a hill, and whoever falls to the bottom of the hill, loses.\nA Big Guy and Small Guy start fighting over it. BG breaks SG's arm and dislocates a knee. SG limps away into a nice and cozy hole on the side of the hill and starts throwing rocks at BG from inside. BG tries to get in but can't. So he starts patrolling the hill, waiting for his adversary to come out and fight. Occasionally SG does come out and throws more rocks at BG, but goes into hiding before he can be caught. Eventually, BG gets tired and walks off the hill and back to his home.\nWho won?",
">\n\nTaliban got stomped for 20 fucking years. They took over when the big kid left the playground. I bet you thought you sounded smart. \nI know this is just reactionary tears because Biden pulled out even though Trump was going to anyway. It wasn't even a war anymore, it was an occupation.",
">\n\nI'm happy they're doing this, but I think a big part of this is letting people know it is OK to hide or just totally get rid of your gun if it becomes a problem. Guns don't protect you in this situation, they just make you more likely to go through with it.",
">\n\nHow is this a bad thing?",
">\n\nWho said it was bad?",
">\n\nIt’s posted in “nottheonion”",
">\n\nHow is this bad? Suicide prevention training is a good thing. We want people to seek help. Why not seek help from a community your already part of if your a gun owner?",
">\n\nThe training is also for recognizing signs in people around you and learning how to help them",
">\n\nGood. If anyone’s gonna do it better be the gun people. At least somebody is helping. Feel like we want to ridicule someone because we don’t agree with there ideology even though they are helping people.",
">\n\nDo \"murder prevention training\" next!",
">\n\nDo murder prevention and throw away your guns first.",
">\n\nMeanwhile weekly AA meetings will be held at the liquor store down the street",
">\n\nDid you even read the article? Sounds like responsible gun ownership if I ever heard it."
] |
> | [
"This is like an LGBT club hosting suicide prevention training. It's statistically significant and important to address.",
">\n\n\"DO NOT AIM AT SELF\"",
">\n\n\"DO NOT SHOOT EX GIRLFRIEND\" \n\"BROWN PEOPLE ARE NOT TARGET PRACTICE\" \n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"",
">\n\n\n\"WE CANNOT BEAT THE US MILITARY IN THE SECOND CIVIL WAR\"\n\nTell that to the taliban",
">\n\nTaliban won? 😂🤣😂",
">\n\nAre they in power and did we pull out?",
">\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago. The elite decided they made enough money on the 20 year war where we literally suppressed the Taliban into submission. \nWhat would have been a victory ? staying there 40 years? Does that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?",
">\n\n\nWe killed Osama Bin ladin years ago.\n\nHis death was not the end of the taliban. They just appointed a new leader.\n\nWhat would have been a victory ?\n\nNot having the taliban back in control.\n\nDoes that mean Germany won WW2 since we left and they took the country back?\n\nNo we deleted the nazi party. The nazis didn't take control again. It said that you need to have this explained to you.",
">\n\nTaliban didn't win anything, they came back after the US military stopped caring. Tell me at what point did the Taliban pushed back the US military with superior force?\nIt's like a small woman trying to hit a big guy. When he just leaves and not fight back, does the woman get to declare victory?\nDid the fly buzzing around my face win the battle?",
">\n\nTwo people are fighting on top of a hill, and whoever falls to the bottom of the hill, loses.\nA Big Guy and Small Guy start fighting over it. BG breaks SG's arm and dislocates a knee. SG limps away into a nice and cozy hole on the side of the hill and starts throwing rocks at BG from inside. BG tries to get in but can't. So he starts patrolling the hill, waiting for his adversary to come out and fight. Occasionally SG does come out and throws more rocks at BG, but goes into hiding before he can be caught. Eventually, BG gets tired and walks off the hill and back to his home.\nWho won?",
">\n\nTaliban got stomped for 20 fucking years. They took over when the big kid left the playground. I bet you thought you sounded smart. \nI know this is just reactionary tears because Biden pulled out even though Trump was going to anyway. It wasn't even a war anymore, it was an occupation.",
">\n\nI'm happy they're doing this, but I think a big part of this is letting people know it is OK to hide or just totally get rid of your gun if it becomes a problem. Guns don't protect you in this situation, they just make you more likely to go through with it.",
">\n\nHow is this a bad thing?",
">\n\nWho said it was bad?",
">\n\nIt’s posted in “nottheonion”",
">\n\nHow is this bad? Suicide prevention training is a good thing. We want people to seek help. Why not seek help from a community your already part of if your a gun owner?",
">\n\nThe training is also for recognizing signs in people around you and learning how to help them",
">\n\nGood. If anyone’s gonna do it better be the gun people. At least somebody is helping. Feel like we want to ridicule someone because we don’t agree with there ideology even though they are helping people.",
">\n\nDo \"murder prevention training\" next!",
">\n\nDo murder prevention and throw away your guns first.",
">\n\nMeanwhile weekly AA meetings will be held at the liquor store down the street",
">\n\nDid you even read the article? Sounds like responsible gun ownership if I ever heard it.",
">\n\nOf course not. OP posted without context on purpose."
] |
This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.
Remember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not "thoughts had in the shower!"
(For an explanation of what a "showerthought" is, please read this page.)
Rule-breaking posts may result in bans. | [] |
> | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans."
] |
He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.
Most of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin.
Overall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him. | [] |
>
Overall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.
Got it right off the bat.
Meant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him."
] |
>
There's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.
And then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, "Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them."
Obama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed."
] |
>
There's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.
I vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.
You may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost.
You've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.
And that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it."
] |
>
I don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀 | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency."
] |
>
I realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.
Why on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want?
You're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try?
And why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀"
] |
>
I’ll answer seriously now.
In the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.
For example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues.
What’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.
If given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg."
] |
>
Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.
If given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.
But can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize."
] |
>
Are you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.
I made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.
Compromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against."
] |
>
Seems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants."
] |
>
I think so...
-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.
-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy
-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.
-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.
-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.
-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.
I think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?
Personally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity."
] |
>
Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy
It's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries."
] |
>
It's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense.
But it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the "Jimmy Carter" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.
You can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success."
] |
>
he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.
Wait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, "Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?" | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge."
] |
>
His policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer.
Listen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\""
] |
>
His...what?
Looking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule."
] |
>
Pink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - "we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS.
It is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea.
While not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image."
] |
>
Him in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue.
It is honestly endearing. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press."
] |
>
ACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing."
] |
>
I think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare."
] |
>
I know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.
My dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA."
] |
>
he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.
that's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career."
] |
>
Before the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.
I am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance."
] |
>
And there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.
I'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well."
] |
>
if you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?
You can keep talking about "lived experience" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying."
] |
>
Overall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.
Obviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.
So yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this."
] |
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but in terms of matters that are actually relevant
I disagree here. I think his race alone was/is historic, and for that reason alone, he will remain as a well-remembered president in American history. Race played a big role in the 2010s, especially on topics like police brutality and the Black Lives Matter protests, which exploded during this time due to everyone suddenly having a phone with a camera and internet.
Obviously his other stuff is important, but 50-100 years in the future, I don't think people will remember a healthcare bill passed in 2009 or what happened in Afghanistan in 2011. But they will remember who the first Black president was. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this.",
">\n\nOverall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.\nObviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.\nSo yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president."
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Like I said, part of his legacy will obviously be being the first African-American President, but we’re also poised to have a political leaders from minority groups in the future, so I doubt that will be that big a deal say thirty or fifty years from now, and certainly wouldn’t be enough of a reason alone to keep him in good memories historically speaking.
That being said, as I said before, in light of his actual accomplishments and what occurred during his two terms in office, he’s likely to be remembered decently. The ACA qualifies as an accomplishment, despite it not being supported by ~50% of Americans, people will remember that as an example of Obama doing something.
But most of all, by far, I believe Obama will be remembered for his role in foreign policy, particularly that of the Middle East. He oversaw the end of the Iraq War, the rise of Isis, and the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. He may have achieved mixed results in those regards, but he’ll still definitely be remembered for those events mainly, because to put it plainly, they’re the most significant.
As for police brutality and the rise of BLM, most events in that regard occurred late in Trump’s term. Trump was elected mainly due to dissatisfaction with the ruling establishment in the mid-2010s, sort of the runoff of the Tea Party movement. Racial tensions played little to no role in his Presidency until 2020.
That being said, Trump is unlikely to be remembered fondly by historians, (unless he somehow gets re-elected in 2024 Grover Cleveland style and turns it around). I try to be as politically neutral as possible with my reasoning, but for obvious reasons Trump will be remembered poorly, that’s kind of just a fact. Honestly I doubt in thirty or fifty years many people will remember much about him besides Jan 6/the election plus tweets. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this.",
">\n\nOverall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.\nObviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.\nSo yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president.",
">\n\n\nbut in terms of matters that are actually relevant\n\nI disagree here. I think his race alone was/is historic, and for that reason alone, he will remain as a well-remembered president in American history. Race played a big role in the 2010s, especially on topics like police brutality and the Black Lives Matter protests, which exploded during this time due to everyone suddenly having a phone with a camera and internet.\nObviously his other stuff is important, but 50-100 years in the future, I don't think people will remember a healthcare bill passed in 2009 or what happened in Afghanistan in 2011. But they will remember who the first Black president was."
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I think Obama, in 50-100 years will be considered a Great President. He overcame few hurdles any previous president even faced. Never mind manage the country through the Great Recession without a single scandal.
Obama, in my opinion, is one of the “cleanest” presidents we’ve ever had. In my view, Obama was the least corrupt president in the post war period.
No, I am not one of those people who blames Obama for what followed. Because the only people responsible for what followed where those who did what they did. I’m not a big fan of “you made me feel this way so I did this super shitty thing to people therefor it’s your fault” weak minded propaganda. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this.",
">\n\nOverall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.\nObviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.\nSo yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president.",
">\n\n\nbut in terms of matters that are actually relevant\n\nI disagree here. I think his race alone was/is historic, and for that reason alone, he will remain as a well-remembered president in American history. Race played a big role in the 2010s, especially on topics like police brutality and the Black Lives Matter protests, which exploded during this time due to everyone suddenly having a phone with a camera and internet.\nObviously his other stuff is important, but 50-100 years in the future, I don't think people will remember a healthcare bill passed in 2009 or what happened in Afghanistan in 2011. But they will remember who the first Black president was.",
">\n\nLike I said, part of his legacy will obviously be being the first African-American President, but we’re also poised to have a political leaders from minority groups in the future, so I doubt that will be that big a deal say thirty or fifty years from now, and certainly wouldn’t be enough of a reason alone to keep him in good memories historically speaking.\nThat being said, as I said before, in light of his actual accomplishments and what occurred during his two terms in office, he’s likely to be remembered decently. The ACA qualifies as an accomplishment, despite it not being supported by ~50% of Americans, people will remember that as an example of Obama doing something.\nBut most of all, by far, I believe Obama will be remembered for his role in foreign policy, particularly that of the Middle East. He oversaw the end of the Iraq War, the rise of Isis, and the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. He may have achieved mixed results in those regards, but he’ll still definitely be remembered for those events mainly, because to put it plainly, they’re the most significant.\nAs for police brutality and the rise of BLM, most events in that regard occurred late in Trump’s term. Trump was elected mainly due to dissatisfaction with the ruling establishment in the mid-2010s, sort of the runoff of the Tea Party movement. Racial tensions played little to no role in his Presidency until 2020.\nThat being said, Trump is unlikely to be remembered fondly by historians, (unless he somehow gets re-elected in 2024 Grover Cleveland style and turns it around). I try to be as politically neutral as possible with my reasoning, but for obvious reasons Trump will be remembered poorly, that’s kind of just a fact. Honestly I doubt in thirty or fifty years many people will remember much about him besides Jan 6/the election plus tweets."
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The only cleaner post war one was Carter. I think Obama’s true legacy is that he was an adequately effective politician and competent executive without being a scumbag. It doesn’t sound like much, but judging by the rest field it must be pretty difficult. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this.",
">\n\nOverall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.\nObviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.\nSo yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president.",
">\n\n\nbut in terms of matters that are actually relevant\n\nI disagree here. I think his race alone was/is historic, and for that reason alone, he will remain as a well-remembered president in American history. Race played a big role in the 2010s, especially on topics like police brutality and the Black Lives Matter protests, which exploded during this time due to everyone suddenly having a phone with a camera and internet.\nObviously his other stuff is important, but 50-100 years in the future, I don't think people will remember a healthcare bill passed in 2009 or what happened in Afghanistan in 2011. But they will remember who the first Black president was.",
">\n\nLike I said, part of his legacy will obviously be being the first African-American President, but we’re also poised to have a political leaders from minority groups in the future, so I doubt that will be that big a deal say thirty or fifty years from now, and certainly wouldn’t be enough of a reason alone to keep him in good memories historically speaking.\nThat being said, as I said before, in light of his actual accomplishments and what occurred during his two terms in office, he’s likely to be remembered decently. The ACA qualifies as an accomplishment, despite it not being supported by ~50% of Americans, people will remember that as an example of Obama doing something.\nBut most of all, by far, I believe Obama will be remembered for his role in foreign policy, particularly that of the Middle East. He oversaw the end of the Iraq War, the rise of Isis, and the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. He may have achieved mixed results in those regards, but he’ll still definitely be remembered for those events mainly, because to put it plainly, they’re the most significant.\nAs for police brutality and the rise of BLM, most events in that regard occurred late in Trump’s term. Trump was elected mainly due to dissatisfaction with the ruling establishment in the mid-2010s, sort of the runoff of the Tea Party movement. Racial tensions played little to no role in his Presidency until 2020.\nThat being said, Trump is unlikely to be remembered fondly by historians, (unless he somehow gets re-elected in 2024 Grover Cleveland style and turns it around). I try to be as politically neutral as possible with my reasoning, but for obvious reasons Trump will be remembered poorly, that’s kind of just a fact. Honestly I doubt in thirty or fifty years many people will remember much about him besides Jan 6/the election plus tweets.",
">\n\nI think Obama, in 50-100 years will be considered a Great President. He overcame few hurdles any previous president even faced. Never mind manage the country through the Great Recession without a single scandal.\nObama, in my opinion, is one of the “cleanest” presidents we’ve ever had. In my view, Obama was the least corrupt president in the post war period.\nNo, I am not one of those people who blames Obama for what followed. Because the only people responsible for what followed where those who did what they did. I’m not a big fan of “you made me feel this way so I did this super shitty thing to people therefor it’s your fault” weak minded propaganda."
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I live in Atlanta, and Barack Obama is (not surprisingly) almost immortal here. Tire shops, diners, gas stations have framed photos of him and Michelle on their wall and good luck to whomever decides to take those photos down. Uber drivers have his photo on their dash. I was at an estate sale the other day and the person who passed had a 10 ft x 16 ft painting commission done of the Obamas and it was in their living room.
I am not Black, but I don't think it's quite possible to overstate the impact of a black president for so many African Americans. Give the farm teams of both parties, it's probably likely to say outside of an unpredictable event (ie. Biden dying), we probably will not see another Black president for a while.
Now obviously you don't have to go very far north in Georgia is see a lot of Trump love, but even that is waning, and soon those folks will be on to the next thing.
I think Obama's legacy will live on for a very long time. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this.",
">\n\nOverall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.\nObviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.\nSo yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president.",
">\n\n\nbut in terms of matters that are actually relevant\n\nI disagree here. I think his race alone was/is historic, and for that reason alone, he will remain as a well-remembered president in American history. Race played a big role in the 2010s, especially on topics like police brutality and the Black Lives Matter protests, which exploded during this time due to everyone suddenly having a phone with a camera and internet.\nObviously his other stuff is important, but 50-100 years in the future, I don't think people will remember a healthcare bill passed in 2009 or what happened in Afghanistan in 2011. But they will remember who the first Black president was.",
">\n\nLike I said, part of his legacy will obviously be being the first African-American President, but we’re also poised to have a political leaders from minority groups in the future, so I doubt that will be that big a deal say thirty or fifty years from now, and certainly wouldn’t be enough of a reason alone to keep him in good memories historically speaking.\nThat being said, as I said before, in light of his actual accomplishments and what occurred during his two terms in office, he’s likely to be remembered decently. The ACA qualifies as an accomplishment, despite it not being supported by ~50% of Americans, people will remember that as an example of Obama doing something.\nBut most of all, by far, I believe Obama will be remembered for his role in foreign policy, particularly that of the Middle East. He oversaw the end of the Iraq War, the rise of Isis, and the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. He may have achieved mixed results in those regards, but he’ll still definitely be remembered for those events mainly, because to put it plainly, they’re the most significant.\nAs for police brutality and the rise of BLM, most events in that regard occurred late in Trump’s term. Trump was elected mainly due to dissatisfaction with the ruling establishment in the mid-2010s, sort of the runoff of the Tea Party movement. Racial tensions played little to no role in his Presidency until 2020.\nThat being said, Trump is unlikely to be remembered fondly by historians, (unless he somehow gets re-elected in 2024 Grover Cleveland style and turns it around). I try to be as politically neutral as possible with my reasoning, but for obvious reasons Trump will be remembered poorly, that’s kind of just a fact. Honestly I doubt in thirty or fifty years many people will remember much about him besides Jan 6/the election plus tweets.",
">\n\nI think Obama, in 50-100 years will be considered a Great President. He overcame few hurdles any previous president even faced. Never mind manage the country through the Great Recession without a single scandal.\nObama, in my opinion, is one of the “cleanest” presidents we’ve ever had. In my view, Obama was the least corrupt president in the post war period.\nNo, I am not one of those people who blames Obama for what followed. Because the only people responsible for what followed where those who did what they did. I’m not a big fan of “you made me feel this way so I did this super shitty thing to people therefor it’s your fault” weak minded propaganda.",
">\n\nThe only cleaner post war one was Carter. I think Obama’s true legacy is that he was an adequately effective politician and competent executive without being a scumbag. It doesn’t sound like much, but judging by the rest field it must be pretty difficult."
] |
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You’re noting Obama and Trump voters as two completely separate entities which they are not. They never ran against each other, and it’s likely that millions of people who voted for Obama later voted for Trump. I think one of the best sources for OPs question would come from some of these Obama-to-Trump voters, their reasons for doing so and the thought-processes behind it. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this.",
">\n\nOverall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.\nObviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.\nSo yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president.",
">\n\n\nbut in terms of matters that are actually relevant\n\nI disagree here. I think his race alone was/is historic, and for that reason alone, he will remain as a well-remembered president in American history. Race played a big role in the 2010s, especially on topics like police brutality and the Black Lives Matter protests, which exploded during this time due to everyone suddenly having a phone with a camera and internet.\nObviously his other stuff is important, but 50-100 years in the future, I don't think people will remember a healthcare bill passed in 2009 or what happened in Afghanistan in 2011. But they will remember who the first Black president was.",
">\n\nLike I said, part of his legacy will obviously be being the first African-American President, but we’re also poised to have a political leaders from minority groups in the future, so I doubt that will be that big a deal say thirty or fifty years from now, and certainly wouldn’t be enough of a reason alone to keep him in good memories historically speaking.\nThat being said, as I said before, in light of his actual accomplishments and what occurred during his two terms in office, he’s likely to be remembered decently. The ACA qualifies as an accomplishment, despite it not being supported by ~50% of Americans, people will remember that as an example of Obama doing something.\nBut most of all, by far, I believe Obama will be remembered for his role in foreign policy, particularly that of the Middle East. He oversaw the end of the Iraq War, the rise of Isis, and the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. He may have achieved mixed results in those regards, but he’ll still definitely be remembered for those events mainly, because to put it plainly, they’re the most significant.\nAs for police brutality and the rise of BLM, most events in that regard occurred late in Trump’s term. Trump was elected mainly due to dissatisfaction with the ruling establishment in the mid-2010s, sort of the runoff of the Tea Party movement. Racial tensions played little to no role in his Presidency until 2020.\nThat being said, Trump is unlikely to be remembered fondly by historians, (unless he somehow gets re-elected in 2024 Grover Cleveland style and turns it around). I try to be as politically neutral as possible with my reasoning, but for obvious reasons Trump will be remembered poorly, that’s kind of just a fact. Honestly I doubt in thirty or fifty years many people will remember much about him besides Jan 6/the election plus tweets.",
">\n\nI think Obama, in 50-100 years will be considered a Great President. He overcame few hurdles any previous president even faced. Never mind manage the country through the Great Recession without a single scandal.\nObama, in my opinion, is one of the “cleanest” presidents we’ve ever had. In my view, Obama was the least corrupt president in the post war period.\nNo, I am not one of those people who blames Obama for what followed. Because the only people responsible for what followed where those who did what they did. I’m not a big fan of “you made me feel this way so I did this super shitty thing to people therefor it’s your fault” weak minded propaganda.",
">\n\nThe only cleaner post war one was Carter. I think Obama’s true legacy is that he was an adequately effective politician and competent executive without being a scumbag. It doesn’t sound like much, but judging by the rest field it must be pretty difficult.",
">\n\nI live in Atlanta, and Barack Obama is (not surprisingly) almost immortal here. Tire shops, diners, gas stations have framed photos of him and Michelle on their wall and good luck to whomever decides to take those photos down. Uber drivers have his photo on their dash. I was at an estate sale the other day and the person who passed had a 10 ft x 16 ft painting commission done of the Obamas and it was in their living room.\nI am not Black, but I don't think it's quite possible to overstate the impact of a black president for so many African Americans. Give the farm teams of both parties, it's probably likely to say outside of an unpredictable event (ie. Biden dying), we probably will not see another Black president for a while. \nNow obviously you don't have to go very far north in Georgia is see a lot of Trump love, but even that is waning, and soon those folks will be on to the next thing.\nI think Obama's legacy will live on for a very long time."
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That is only true in some areas (ie. Philly). It is statistically not true in Atlanta. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this.",
">\n\nOverall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.\nObviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.\nSo yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president.",
">\n\n\nbut in terms of matters that are actually relevant\n\nI disagree here. I think his race alone was/is historic, and for that reason alone, he will remain as a well-remembered president in American history. Race played a big role in the 2010s, especially on topics like police brutality and the Black Lives Matter protests, which exploded during this time due to everyone suddenly having a phone with a camera and internet.\nObviously his other stuff is important, but 50-100 years in the future, I don't think people will remember a healthcare bill passed in 2009 or what happened in Afghanistan in 2011. But they will remember who the first Black president was.",
">\n\nLike I said, part of his legacy will obviously be being the first African-American President, but we’re also poised to have a political leaders from minority groups in the future, so I doubt that will be that big a deal say thirty or fifty years from now, and certainly wouldn’t be enough of a reason alone to keep him in good memories historically speaking.\nThat being said, as I said before, in light of his actual accomplishments and what occurred during his two terms in office, he’s likely to be remembered decently. The ACA qualifies as an accomplishment, despite it not being supported by ~50% of Americans, people will remember that as an example of Obama doing something.\nBut most of all, by far, I believe Obama will be remembered for his role in foreign policy, particularly that of the Middle East. He oversaw the end of the Iraq War, the rise of Isis, and the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. He may have achieved mixed results in those regards, but he’ll still definitely be remembered for those events mainly, because to put it plainly, they’re the most significant.\nAs for police brutality and the rise of BLM, most events in that regard occurred late in Trump’s term. Trump was elected mainly due to dissatisfaction with the ruling establishment in the mid-2010s, sort of the runoff of the Tea Party movement. Racial tensions played little to no role in his Presidency until 2020.\nThat being said, Trump is unlikely to be remembered fondly by historians, (unless he somehow gets re-elected in 2024 Grover Cleveland style and turns it around). I try to be as politically neutral as possible with my reasoning, but for obvious reasons Trump will be remembered poorly, that’s kind of just a fact. Honestly I doubt in thirty or fifty years many people will remember much about him besides Jan 6/the election plus tweets.",
">\n\nI think Obama, in 50-100 years will be considered a Great President. He overcame few hurdles any previous president even faced. Never mind manage the country through the Great Recession without a single scandal.\nObama, in my opinion, is one of the “cleanest” presidents we’ve ever had. In my view, Obama was the least corrupt president in the post war period.\nNo, I am not one of those people who blames Obama for what followed. Because the only people responsible for what followed where those who did what they did. I’m not a big fan of “you made me feel this way so I did this super shitty thing to people therefor it’s your fault” weak minded propaganda.",
">\n\nThe only cleaner post war one was Carter. I think Obama’s true legacy is that he was an adequately effective politician and competent executive without being a scumbag. It doesn’t sound like much, but judging by the rest field it must be pretty difficult.",
">\n\nI live in Atlanta, and Barack Obama is (not surprisingly) almost immortal here. Tire shops, diners, gas stations have framed photos of him and Michelle on their wall and good luck to whomever decides to take those photos down. Uber drivers have his photo on their dash. I was at an estate sale the other day and the person who passed had a 10 ft x 16 ft painting commission done of the Obamas and it was in their living room.\nI am not Black, but I don't think it's quite possible to overstate the impact of a black president for so many African Americans. Give the farm teams of both parties, it's probably likely to say outside of an unpredictable event (ie. Biden dying), we probably will not see another Black president for a while. \nNow obviously you don't have to go very far north in Georgia is see a lot of Trump love, but even that is waning, and soon those folks will be on to the next thing.\nI think Obama's legacy will live on for a very long time.",
">\n\nYou’re noting Obama and Trump voters as two completely separate entities which they are not. They never ran against each other, and it’s likely that millions of people who voted for Obama later voted for Trump. I think one of the best sources for OPs question would come from some of these Obama-to-Trump voters, their reasons for doing so and the thought-processes behind it."
] |
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Obama is extremely charismatic and intelligent, which definitely helps his current popularity. Future generations will just judge him based on achievements, so I think his popularity will decline on that alone. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this.",
">\n\nOverall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.\nObviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.\nSo yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president.",
">\n\n\nbut in terms of matters that are actually relevant\n\nI disagree here. I think his race alone was/is historic, and for that reason alone, he will remain as a well-remembered president in American history. Race played a big role in the 2010s, especially on topics like police brutality and the Black Lives Matter protests, which exploded during this time due to everyone suddenly having a phone with a camera and internet.\nObviously his other stuff is important, but 50-100 years in the future, I don't think people will remember a healthcare bill passed in 2009 or what happened in Afghanistan in 2011. But they will remember who the first Black president was.",
">\n\nLike I said, part of his legacy will obviously be being the first African-American President, but we’re also poised to have a political leaders from minority groups in the future, so I doubt that will be that big a deal say thirty or fifty years from now, and certainly wouldn’t be enough of a reason alone to keep him in good memories historically speaking.\nThat being said, as I said before, in light of his actual accomplishments and what occurred during his two terms in office, he’s likely to be remembered decently. The ACA qualifies as an accomplishment, despite it not being supported by ~50% of Americans, people will remember that as an example of Obama doing something.\nBut most of all, by far, I believe Obama will be remembered for his role in foreign policy, particularly that of the Middle East. He oversaw the end of the Iraq War, the rise of Isis, and the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. He may have achieved mixed results in those regards, but he’ll still definitely be remembered for those events mainly, because to put it plainly, they’re the most significant.\nAs for police brutality and the rise of BLM, most events in that regard occurred late in Trump’s term. Trump was elected mainly due to dissatisfaction with the ruling establishment in the mid-2010s, sort of the runoff of the Tea Party movement. Racial tensions played little to no role in his Presidency until 2020.\nThat being said, Trump is unlikely to be remembered fondly by historians, (unless he somehow gets re-elected in 2024 Grover Cleveland style and turns it around). I try to be as politically neutral as possible with my reasoning, but for obvious reasons Trump will be remembered poorly, that’s kind of just a fact. Honestly I doubt in thirty or fifty years many people will remember much about him besides Jan 6/the election plus tweets.",
">\n\nI think Obama, in 50-100 years will be considered a Great President. He overcame few hurdles any previous president even faced. Never mind manage the country through the Great Recession without a single scandal.\nObama, in my opinion, is one of the “cleanest” presidents we’ve ever had. In my view, Obama was the least corrupt president in the post war period.\nNo, I am not one of those people who blames Obama for what followed. Because the only people responsible for what followed where those who did what they did. I’m not a big fan of “you made me feel this way so I did this super shitty thing to people therefor it’s your fault” weak minded propaganda.",
">\n\nThe only cleaner post war one was Carter. I think Obama’s true legacy is that he was an adequately effective politician and competent executive without being a scumbag. It doesn’t sound like much, but judging by the rest field it must be pretty difficult.",
">\n\nI live in Atlanta, and Barack Obama is (not surprisingly) almost immortal here. Tire shops, diners, gas stations have framed photos of him and Michelle on their wall and good luck to whomever decides to take those photos down. Uber drivers have his photo on their dash. I was at an estate sale the other day and the person who passed had a 10 ft x 16 ft painting commission done of the Obamas and it was in their living room.\nI am not Black, but I don't think it's quite possible to overstate the impact of a black president for so many African Americans. Give the farm teams of both parties, it's probably likely to say outside of an unpredictable event (ie. Biden dying), we probably will not see another Black president for a while. \nNow obviously you don't have to go very far north in Georgia is see a lot of Trump love, but even that is waning, and soon those folks will be on to the next thing.\nI think Obama's legacy will live on for a very long time.",
">\n\nYou’re noting Obama and Trump voters as two completely separate entities which they are not. They never ran against each other, and it’s likely that millions of people who voted for Obama later voted for Trump. I think one of the best sources for OPs question would come from some of these Obama-to-Trump voters, their reasons for doing so and the thought-processes behind it.",
">\n\nThat is only true in some areas (ie. Philly). It is statistically not true in Atlanta."
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As a few others have said, I think from a policy and political standpoint he'll be remembered as a stable but ineffectual leader who basically didn't rock the boat.
More than that though, I think he'll be remembered for the immense social change that occurred during his administration. Marijuana, homosexuality, and many more things became widely accepted or legalized during this time. I think people will view Obama's presidency as one of great social progress but political stagnation. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this.",
">\n\nOverall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.\nObviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.\nSo yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president.",
">\n\n\nbut in terms of matters that are actually relevant\n\nI disagree here. I think his race alone was/is historic, and for that reason alone, he will remain as a well-remembered president in American history. Race played a big role in the 2010s, especially on topics like police brutality and the Black Lives Matter protests, which exploded during this time due to everyone suddenly having a phone with a camera and internet.\nObviously his other stuff is important, but 50-100 years in the future, I don't think people will remember a healthcare bill passed in 2009 or what happened in Afghanistan in 2011. But they will remember who the first Black president was.",
">\n\nLike I said, part of his legacy will obviously be being the first African-American President, but we’re also poised to have a political leaders from minority groups in the future, so I doubt that will be that big a deal say thirty or fifty years from now, and certainly wouldn’t be enough of a reason alone to keep him in good memories historically speaking.\nThat being said, as I said before, in light of his actual accomplishments and what occurred during his two terms in office, he’s likely to be remembered decently. The ACA qualifies as an accomplishment, despite it not being supported by ~50% of Americans, people will remember that as an example of Obama doing something.\nBut most of all, by far, I believe Obama will be remembered for his role in foreign policy, particularly that of the Middle East. He oversaw the end of the Iraq War, the rise of Isis, and the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. He may have achieved mixed results in those regards, but he’ll still definitely be remembered for those events mainly, because to put it plainly, they’re the most significant.\nAs for police brutality and the rise of BLM, most events in that regard occurred late in Trump’s term. Trump was elected mainly due to dissatisfaction with the ruling establishment in the mid-2010s, sort of the runoff of the Tea Party movement. Racial tensions played little to no role in his Presidency until 2020.\nThat being said, Trump is unlikely to be remembered fondly by historians, (unless he somehow gets re-elected in 2024 Grover Cleveland style and turns it around). I try to be as politically neutral as possible with my reasoning, but for obvious reasons Trump will be remembered poorly, that’s kind of just a fact. Honestly I doubt in thirty or fifty years many people will remember much about him besides Jan 6/the election plus tweets.",
">\n\nI think Obama, in 50-100 years will be considered a Great President. He overcame few hurdles any previous president even faced. Never mind manage the country through the Great Recession without a single scandal.\nObama, in my opinion, is one of the “cleanest” presidents we’ve ever had. In my view, Obama was the least corrupt president in the post war period.\nNo, I am not one of those people who blames Obama for what followed. Because the only people responsible for what followed where those who did what they did. I’m not a big fan of “you made me feel this way so I did this super shitty thing to people therefor it’s your fault” weak minded propaganda.",
">\n\nThe only cleaner post war one was Carter. I think Obama’s true legacy is that he was an adequately effective politician and competent executive without being a scumbag. It doesn’t sound like much, but judging by the rest field it must be pretty difficult.",
">\n\nI live in Atlanta, and Barack Obama is (not surprisingly) almost immortal here. Tire shops, diners, gas stations have framed photos of him and Michelle on their wall and good luck to whomever decides to take those photos down. Uber drivers have his photo on their dash. I was at an estate sale the other day and the person who passed had a 10 ft x 16 ft painting commission done of the Obamas and it was in their living room.\nI am not Black, but I don't think it's quite possible to overstate the impact of a black president for so many African Americans. Give the farm teams of both parties, it's probably likely to say outside of an unpredictable event (ie. Biden dying), we probably will not see another Black president for a while. \nNow obviously you don't have to go very far north in Georgia is see a lot of Trump love, but even that is waning, and soon those folks will be on to the next thing.\nI think Obama's legacy will live on for a very long time.",
">\n\nYou’re noting Obama and Trump voters as two completely separate entities which they are not. They never ran against each other, and it’s likely that millions of people who voted for Obama later voted for Trump. I think one of the best sources for OPs question would come from some of these Obama-to-Trump voters, their reasons for doing so and the thought-processes behind it.",
">\n\nThat is only true in some areas (ie. Philly). It is statistically not true in Atlanta.",
">\n\nObama is extremely charismatic and intelligent, which definitely helps his current popularity. Future generations will just judge him based on achievements, so I think his popularity will decline on that alone."
] |
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Didn’t rock the boat? Republicans tuned their entire identity to “abolishing Obamacare.” I think people don’t really understand how radical most people in the country think Obama was. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this.",
">\n\nOverall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.\nObviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.\nSo yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president.",
">\n\n\nbut in terms of matters that are actually relevant\n\nI disagree here. I think his race alone was/is historic, and for that reason alone, he will remain as a well-remembered president in American history. Race played a big role in the 2010s, especially on topics like police brutality and the Black Lives Matter protests, which exploded during this time due to everyone suddenly having a phone with a camera and internet.\nObviously his other stuff is important, but 50-100 years in the future, I don't think people will remember a healthcare bill passed in 2009 or what happened in Afghanistan in 2011. But they will remember who the first Black president was.",
">\n\nLike I said, part of his legacy will obviously be being the first African-American President, but we’re also poised to have a political leaders from minority groups in the future, so I doubt that will be that big a deal say thirty or fifty years from now, and certainly wouldn’t be enough of a reason alone to keep him in good memories historically speaking.\nThat being said, as I said before, in light of his actual accomplishments and what occurred during his two terms in office, he’s likely to be remembered decently. The ACA qualifies as an accomplishment, despite it not being supported by ~50% of Americans, people will remember that as an example of Obama doing something.\nBut most of all, by far, I believe Obama will be remembered for his role in foreign policy, particularly that of the Middle East. He oversaw the end of the Iraq War, the rise of Isis, and the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. He may have achieved mixed results in those regards, but he’ll still definitely be remembered for those events mainly, because to put it plainly, they’re the most significant.\nAs for police brutality and the rise of BLM, most events in that regard occurred late in Trump’s term. Trump was elected mainly due to dissatisfaction with the ruling establishment in the mid-2010s, sort of the runoff of the Tea Party movement. Racial tensions played little to no role in his Presidency until 2020.\nThat being said, Trump is unlikely to be remembered fondly by historians, (unless he somehow gets re-elected in 2024 Grover Cleveland style and turns it around). I try to be as politically neutral as possible with my reasoning, but for obvious reasons Trump will be remembered poorly, that’s kind of just a fact. Honestly I doubt in thirty or fifty years many people will remember much about him besides Jan 6/the election plus tweets.",
">\n\nI think Obama, in 50-100 years will be considered a Great President. He overcame few hurdles any previous president even faced. Never mind manage the country through the Great Recession without a single scandal.\nObama, in my opinion, is one of the “cleanest” presidents we’ve ever had. In my view, Obama was the least corrupt president in the post war period.\nNo, I am not one of those people who blames Obama for what followed. Because the only people responsible for what followed where those who did what they did. I’m not a big fan of “you made me feel this way so I did this super shitty thing to people therefor it’s your fault” weak minded propaganda.",
">\n\nThe only cleaner post war one was Carter. I think Obama’s true legacy is that he was an adequately effective politician and competent executive without being a scumbag. It doesn’t sound like much, but judging by the rest field it must be pretty difficult.",
">\n\nI live in Atlanta, and Barack Obama is (not surprisingly) almost immortal here. Tire shops, diners, gas stations have framed photos of him and Michelle on their wall and good luck to whomever decides to take those photos down. Uber drivers have his photo on their dash. I was at an estate sale the other day and the person who passed had a 10 ft x 16 ft painting commission done of the Obamas and it was in their living room.\nI am not Black, but I don't think it's quite possible to overstate the impact of a black president for so many African Americans. Give the farm teams of both parties, it's probably likely to say outside of an unpredictable event (ie. Biden dying), we probably will not see another Black president for a while. \nNow obviously you don't have to go very far north in Georgia is see a lot of Trump love, but even that is waning, and soon those folks will be on to the next thing.\nI think Obama's legacy will live on for a very long time.",
">\n\nYou’re noting Obama and Trump voters as two completely separate entities which they are not. They never ran against each other, and it’s likely that millions of people who voted for Obama later voted for Trump. I think one of the best sources for OPs question would come from some of these Obama-to-Trump voters, their reasons for doing so and the thought-processes behind it.",
">\n\nThat is only true in some areas (ie. Philly). It is statistically not true in Atlanta.",
">\n\nObama is extremely charismatic and intelligent, which definitely helps his current popularity. Future generations will just judge him based on achievements, so I think his popularity will decline on that alone.",
">\n\nAs a few others have said, I think from a policy and political standpoint he'll be remembered as a stable but ineffectual leader who basically didn't rock the boat.\nMore than that though, I think he'll be remembered for the immense social change that occurred during his administration. Marijuana, homosexuality, and many more things became widely accepted or legalized during this time. I think people will view Obama's presidency as one of great social progress but political stagnation."
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>
I think he will likely be downgraded as time goes on for his tendency to be overly moderate, wasting political capital, continuing many foreign policy mistakes, and not doing anything to shore up American democracy.
To begin, I think all sides of the equation are rightfully increasingly dismissive of the game of moderate compromise politics he traded in. Many other posters have mentioned the ACA as a major political victory of his but even at the time people were frustrated at how much energy he wasted getting through a watered down proposal that was frankly not enough to deal with America’s healthcare crisis. Similarly, he’ll be remembered for not protecting Roe v Wade and being not nearly supportive enough on civil rights issues like the early BLM and gay rights movements. So amongst his main group of supporters the general tendency leftward in recent years indicates he’ll likely be perceived as too moderate and truly wasting the super majority he had.
On Foreign Policy, you have a continuation of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, a hawkish attitude on Libya, Syria and Yemen, massive drone strike campaigns, and his general poor handling of Putin. There’s also his support for unpopular trade deals in the Pacific and with NAFTA. In many ways, he was a more competent continuation of the American standard foreign policy that came from Clinton and Bush. This foreign policy consensus has clearly fallen apart in key aspects, Afghanistan was a massive mistake, Iraq is a mess as always, Libya is in an on and off civil war with open air slave markets, Syria and Yemen continue to be the worst modern humanitarian disasters in recent memory, and he couldn’t decide if he wanted to take a strong stand with Putin or coordinate for deescalation.
Finally, there’s just the general fact that this period will likely be remembered as an explosive and key turning point for America. The country is significantly shifting with both sides recognizing the failures of the neoliberal status quo, and Obama was really the last president who wasn’t a product of the new ideological clash. The fact that his Democratic Party backed a worthless candidate in 2016 will be judged harshly. The fact that he didn’t fight harder against the trump administration will be judged harshly. Him sticking to norms while republicans consistently didn’t will be judged harshly.
I remember in 2016, Michelle Obama said “when they go low we go high” at that point it seemed like a good positive note. Now it seems part and parcel with the democrats failures in the modern era. They went high and their enemies went low, but a moral high ground won’t matter when abortions banned. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this.",
">\n\nOverall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.\nObviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.\nSo yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president.",
">\n\n\nbut in terms of matters that are actually relevant\n\nI disagree here. I think his race alone was/is historic, and for that reason alone, he will remain as a well-remembered president in American history. Race played a big role in the 2010s, especially on topics like police brutality and the Black Lives Matter protests, which exploded during this time due to everyone suddenly having a phone with a camera and internet.\nObviously his other stuff is important, but 50-100 years in the future, I don't think people will remember a healthcare bill passed in 2009 or what happened in Afghanistan in 2011. But they will remember who the first Black president was.",
">\n\nLike I said, part of his legacy will obviously be being the first African-American President, but we’re also poised to have a political leaders from minority groups in the future, so I doubt that will be that big a deal say thirty or fifty years from now, and certainly wouldn’t be enough of a reason alone to keep him in good memories historically speaking.\nThat being said, as I said before, in light of his actual accomplishments and what occurred during his two terms in office, he’s likely to be remembered decently. The ACA qualifies as an accomplishment, despite it not being supported by ~50% of Americans, people will remember that as an example of Obama doing something.\nBut most of all, by far, I believe Obama will be remembered for his role in foreign policy, particularly that of the Middle East. He oversaw the end of the Iraq War, the rise of Isis, and the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. He may have achieved mixed results in those regards, but he’ll still definitely be remembered for those events mainly, because to put it plainly, they’re the most significant.\nAs for police brutality and the rise of BLM, most events in that regard occurred late in Trump’s term. Trump was elected mainly due to dissatisfaction with the ruling establishment in the mid-2010s, sort of the runoff of the Tea Party movement. Racial tensions played little to no role in his Presidency until 2020.\nThat being said, Trump is unlikely to be remembered fondly by historians, (unless he somehow gets re-elected in 2024 Grover Cleveland style and turns it around). I try to be as politically neutral as possible with my reasoning, but for obvious reasons Trump will be remembered poorly, that’s kind of just a fact. Honestly I doubt in thirty or fifty years many people will remember much about him besides Jan 6/the election plus tweets.",
">\n\nI think Obama, in 50-100 years will be considered a Great President. He overcame few hurdles any previous president even faced. Never mind manage the country through the Great Recession without a single scandal.\nObama, in my opinion, is one of the “cleanest” presidents we’ve ever had. In my view, Obama was the least corrupt president in the post war period.\nNo, I am not one of those people who blames Obama for what followed. Because the only people responsible for what followed where those who did what they did. I’m not a big fan of “you made me feel this way so I did this super shitty thing to people therefor it’s your fault” weak minded propaganda.",
">\n\nThe only cleaner post war one was Carter. I think Obama’s true legacy is that he was an adequately effective politician and competent executive without being a scumbag. It doesn’t sound like much, but judging by the rest field it must be pretty difficult.",
">\n\nI live in Atlanta, and Barack Obama is (not surprisingly) almost immortal here. Tire shops, diners, gas stations have framed photos of him and Michelle on their wall and good luck to whomever decides to take those photos down. Uber drivers have his photo on their dash. I was at an estate sale the other day and the person who passed had a 10 ft x 16 ft painting commission done of the Obamas and it was in their living room.\nI am not Black, but I don't think it's quite possible to overstate the impact of a black president for so many African Americans. Give the farm teams of both parties, it's probably likely to say outside of an unpredictable event (ie. Biden dying), we probably will not see another Black president for a while. \nNow obviously you don't have to go very far north in Georgia is see a lot of Trump love, but even that is waning, and soon those folks will be on to the next thing.\nI think Obama's legacy will live on for a very long time.",
">\n\nYou’re noting Obama and Trump voters as two completely separate entities which they are not. They never ran against each other, and it’s likely that millions of people who voted for Obama later voted for Trump. I think one of the best sources for OPs question would come from some of these Obama-to-Trump voters, their reasons for doing so and the thought-processes behind it.",
">\n\nThat is only true in some areas (ie. Philly). It is statistically not true in Atlanta.",
">\n\nObama is extremely charismatic and intelligent, which definitely helps his current popularity. Future generations will just judge him based on achievements, so I think his popularity will decline on that alone.",
">\n\nAs a few others have said, I think from a policy and political standpoint he'll be remembered as a stable but ineffectual leader who basically didn't rock the boat.\nMore than that though, I think he'll be remembered for the immense social change that occurred during his administration. Marijuana, homosexuality, and many more things became widely accepted or legalized during this time. I think people will view Obama's presidency as one of great social progress but political stagnation.",
">\n\nDidn’t rock the boat? Republicans tuned their entire identity to “abolishing Obamacare.” I think people don’t really understand how radical most people in the country think Obama was."
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Obama era was a wasted opportunity, but nobody really understood how badly republicans would react.
Mostly agree with this. Ive been trying to get Democrats to be way more aggressive with weaponizing the debt ceiling, such as threatening to exit the federal reserve system, because Republicans have no way out of it unless Democrats give them one.
The Republicans only power in any occasion is the power Democrats give them since the entire federal credit rating is based on tax dollars that flow from blue states.
Without Democratic leaning states paying the nations bills, the Republican party would simply be another confederacy and would quickly devolve into the 'trashy states of America'. Those states would quickly rip themselves apart. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this.",
">\n\nOverall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.\nObviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.\nSo yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president.",
">\n\n\nbut in terms of matters that are actually relevant\n\nI disagree here. I think his race alone was/is historic, and for that reason alone, he will remain as a well-remembered president in American history. Race played a big role in the 2010s, especially on topics like police brutality and the Black Lives Matter protests, which exploded during this time due to everyone suddenly having a phone with a camera and internet.\nObviously his other stuff is important, but 50-100 years in the future, I don't think people will remember a healthcare bill passed in 2009 or what happened in Afghanistan in 2011. But they will remember who the first Black president was.",
">\n\nLike I said, part of his legacy will obviously be being the first African-American President, but we’re also poised to have a political leaders from minority groups in the future, so I doubt that will be that big a deal say thirty or fifty years from now, and certainly wouldn’t be enough of a reason alone to keep him in good memories historically speaking.\nThat being said, as I said before, in light of his actual accomplishments and what occurred during his two terms in office, he’s likely to be remembered decently. The ACA qualifies as an accomplishment, despite it not being supported by ~50% of Americans, people will remember that as an example of Obama doing something.\nBut most of all, by far, I believe Obama will be remembered for his role in foreign policy, particularly that of the Middle East. He oversaw the end of the Iraq War, the rise of Isis, and the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. He may have achieved mixed results in those regards, but he’ll still definitely be remembered for those events mainly, because to put it plainly, they’re the most significant.\nAs for police brutality and the rise of BLM, most events in that regard occurred late in Trump’s term. Trump was elected mainly due to dissatisfaction with the ruling establishment in the mid-2010s, sort of the runoff of the Tea Party movement. Racial tensions played little to no role in his Presidency until 2020.\nThat being said, Trump is unlikely to be remembered fondly by historians, (unless he somehow gets re-elected in 2024 Grover Cleveland style and turns it around). I try to be as politically neutral as possible with my reasoning, but for obvious reasons Trump will be remembered poorly, that’s kind of just a fact. Honestly I doubt in thirty or fifty years many people will remember much about him besides Jan 6/the election plus tweets.",
">\n\nI think Obama, in 50-100 years will be considered a Great President. He overcame few hurdles any previous president even faced. Never mind manage the country through the Great Recession without a single scandal.\nObama, in my opinion, is one of the “cleanest” presidents we’ve ever had. In my view, Obama was the least corrupt president in the post war period.\nNo, I am not one of those people who blames Obama for what followed. Because the only people responsible for what followed where those who did what they did. I’m not a big fan of “you made me feel this way so I did this super shitty thing to people therefor it’s your fault” weak minded propaganda.",
">\n\nThe only cleaner post war one was Carter. I think Obama’s true legacy is that he was an adequately effective politician and competent executive without being a scumbag. It doesn’t sound like much, but judging by the rest field it must be pretty difficult.",
">\n\nI live in Atlanta, and Barack Obama is (not surprisingly) almost immortal here. Tire shops, diners, gas stations have framed photos of him and Michelle on their wall and good luck to whomever decides to take those photos down. Uber drivers have his photo on their dash. I was at an estate sale the other day and the person who passed had a 10 ft x 16 ft painting commission done of the Obamas and it was in their living room.\nI am not Black, but I don't think it's quite possible to overstate the impact of a black president for so many African Americans. Give the farm teams of both parties, it's probably likely to say outside of an unpredictable event (ie. Biden dying), we probably will not see another Black president for a while. \nNow obviously you don't have to go very far north in Georgia is see a lot of Trump love, but even that is waning, and soon those folks will be on to the next thing.\nI think Obama's legacy will live on for a very long time.",
">\n\nYou’re noting Obama and Trump voters as two completely separate entities which they are not. They never ran against each other, and it’s likely that millions of people who voted for Obama later voted for Trump. I think one of the best sources for OPs question would come from some of these Obama-to-Trump voters, their reasons for doing so and the thought-processes behind it.",
">\n\nThat is only true in some areas (ie. Philly). It is statistically not true in Atlanta.",
">\n\nObama is extremely charismatic and intelligent, which definitely helps his current popularity. Future generations will just judge him based on achievements, so I think his popularity will decline on that alone.",
">\n\nAs a few others have said, I think from a policy and political standpoint he'll be remembered as a stable but ineffectual leader who basically didn't rock the boat.\nMore than that though, I think he'll be remembered for the immense social change that occurred during his administration. Marijuana, homosexuality, and many more things became widely accepted or legalized during this time. I think people will view Obama's presidency as one of great social progress but political stagnation.",
">\n\nDidn’t rock the boat? Republicans tuned their entire identity to “abolishing Obamacare.” I think people don’t really understand how radical most people in the country think Obama was.",
">\n\nI think he will likely be downgraded as time goes on for his tendency to be overly moderate, wasting political capital, continuing many foreign policy mistakes, and not doing anything to shore up American democracy. \nTo begin, I think all sides of the equation are rightfully increasingly dismissive of the game of moderate compromise politics he traded in. Many other posters have mentioned the ACA as a major political victory of his but even at the time people were frustrated at how much energy he wasted getting through a watered down proposal that was frankly not enough to deal with America’s healthcare crisis. Similarly, he’ll be remembered for not protecting Roe v Wade and being not nearly supportive enough on civil rights issues like the early BLM and gay rights movements. So amongst his main group of supporters the general tendency leftward in recent years indicates he’ll likely be perceived as too moderate and truly wasting the super majority he had.\nOn Foreign Policy, you have a continuation of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, a hawkish attitude on Libya, Syria and Yemen, massive drone strike campaigns, and his general poor handling of Putin. There’s also his support for unpopular trade deals in the Pacific and with NAFTA. In many ways, he was a more competent continuation of the American standard foreign policy that came from Clinton and Bush. This foreign policy consensus has clearly fallen apart in key aspects, Afghanistan was a massive mistake, Iraq is a mess as always, Libya is in an on and off civil war with open air slave markets, Syria and Yemen continue to be the worst modern humanitarian disasters in recent memory, and he couldn’t decide if he wanted to take a strong stand with Putin or coordinate for deescalation.\nFinally, there’s just the general fact that this period will likely be remembered as an explosive and key turning point for America. The country is significantly shifting with both sides recognizing the failures of the neoliberal status quo, and Obama was really the last president who wasn’t a product of the new ideological clash. The fact that his Democratic Party backed a worthless candidate in 2016 will be judged harshly. The fact that he didn’t fight harder against the trump administration will be judged harshly. Him sticking to norms while republicans consistently didn’t will be judged harshly. \nI remember in 2016, Michelle Obama said “when they go low we go high” at that point it seemed like a good positive note. Now it seems part and parcel with the democrats failures in the modern era. They went high and their enemies went low, but a moral high ground won’t matter when abortions banned."
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Was he windsurfing or para-sailing during the first weekend of the Trump presidency when the country was protesting the Muslim ban? | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this.",
">\n\nOverall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.\nObviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.\nSo yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president.",
">\n\n\nbut in terms of matters that are actually relevant\n\nI disagree here. I think his race alone was/is historic, and for that reason alone, he will remain as a well-remembered president in American history. Race played a big role in the 2010s, especially on topics like police brutality and the Black Lives Matter protests, which exploded during this time due to everyone suddenly having a phone with a camera and internet.\nObviously his other stuff is important, but 50-100 years in the future, I don't think people will remember a healthcare bill passed in 2009 or what happened in Afghanistan in 2011. But they will remember who the first Black president was.",
">\n\nLike I said, part of his legacy will obviously be being the first African-American President, but we’re also poised to have a political leaders from minority groups in the future, so I doubt that will be that big a deal say thirty or fifty years from now, and certainly wouldn’t be enough of a reason alone to keep him in good memories historically speaking.\nThat being said, as I said before, in light of his actual accomplishments and what occurred during his two terms in office, he’s likely to be remembered decently. The ACA qualifies as an accomplishment, despite it not being supported by ~50% of Americans, people will remember that as an example of Obama doing something.\nBut most of all, by far, I believe Obama will be remembered for his role in foreign policy, particularly that of the Middle East. He oversaw the end of the Iraq War, the rise of Isis, and the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. He may have achieved mixed results in those regards, but he’ll still definitely be remembered for those events mainly, because to put it plainly, they’re the most significant.\nAs for police brutality and the rise of BLM, most events in that regard occurred late in Trump’s term. Trump was elected mainly due to dissatisfaction with the ruling establishment in the mid-2010s, sort of the runoff of the Tea Party movement. Racial tensions played little to no role in his Presidency until 2020.\nThat being said, Trump is unlikely to be remembered fondly by historians, (unless he somehow gets re-elected in 2024 Grover Cleveland style and turns it around). I try to be as politically neutral as possible with my reasoning, but for obvious reasons Trump will be remembered poorly, that’s kind of just a fact. Honestly I doubt in thirty or fifty years many people will remember much about him besides Jan 6/the election plus tweets.",
">\n\nI think Obama, in 50-100 years will be considered a Great President. He overcame few hurdles any previous president even faced. Never mind manage the country through the Great Recession without a single scandal.\nObama, in my opinion, is one of the “cleanest” presidents we’ve ever had. In my view, Obama was the least corrupt president in the post war period.\nNo, I am not one of those people who blames Obama for what followed. Because the only people responsible for what followed where those who did what they did. I’m not a big fan of “you made me feel this way so I did this super shitty thing to people therefor it’s your fault” weak minded propaganda.",
">\n\nThe only cleaner post war one was Carter. I think Obama’s true legacy is that he was an adequately effective politician and competent executive without being a scumbag. It doesn’t sound like much, but judging by the rest field it must be pretty difficult.",
">\n\nI live in Atlanta, and Barack Obama is (not surprisingly) almost immortal here. Tire shops, diners, gas stations have framed photos of him and Michelle on their wall and good luck to whomever decides to take those photos down. Uber drivers have his photo on their dash. I was at an estate sale the other day and the person who passed had a 10 ft x 16 ft painting commission done of the Obamas and it was in their living room.\nI am not Black, but I don't think it's quite possible to overstate the impact of a black president for so many African Americans. Give the farm teams of both parties, it's probably likely to say outside of an unpredictable event (ie. Biden dying), we probably will not see another Black president for a while. \nNow obviously you don't have to go very far north in Georgia is see a lot of Trump love, but even that is waning, and soon those folks will be on to the next thing.\nI think Obama's legacy will live on for a very long time.",
">\n\nYou’re noting Obama and Trump voters as two completely separate entities which they are not. They never ran against each other, and it’s likely that millions of people who voted for Obama later voted for Trump. I think one of the best sources for OPs question would come from some of these Obama-to-Trump voters, their reasons for doing so and the thought-processes behind it.",
">\n\nThat is only true in some areas (ie. Philly). It is statistically not true in Atlanta.",
">\n\nObama is extremely charismatic and intelligent, which definitely helps his current popularity. Future generations will just judge him based on achievements, so I think his popularity will decline on that alone.",
">\n\nAs a few others have said, I think from a policy and political standpoint he'll be remembered as a stable but ineffectual leader who basically didn't rock the boat.\nMore than that though, I think he'll be remembered for the immense social change that occurred during his administration. Marijuana, homosexuality, and many more things became widely accepted or legalized during this time. I think people will view Obama's presidency as one of great social progress but political stagnation.",
">\n\nDidn’t rock the boat? Republicans tuned their entire identity to “abolishing Obamacare.” I think people don’t really understand how radical most people in the country think Obama was.",
">\n\nI think he will likely be downgraded as time goes on for his tendency to be overly moderate, wasting political capital, continuing many foreign policy mistakes, and not doing anything to shore up American democracy. \nTo begin, I think all sides of the equation are rightfully increasingly dismissive of the game of moderate compromise politics he traded in. Many other posters have mentioned the ACA as a major political victory of his but even at the time people were frustrated at how much energy he wasted getting through a watered down proposal that was frankly not enough to deal with America’s healthcare crisis. Similarly, he’ll be remembered for not protecting Roe v Wade and being not nearly supportive enough on civil rights issues like the early BLM and gay rights movements. So amongst his main group of supporters the general tendency leftward in recent years indicates he’ll likely be perceived as too moderate and truly wasting the super majority he had.\nOn Foreign Policy, you have a continuation of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, a hawkish attitude on Libya, Syria and Yemen, massive drone strike campaigns, and his general poor handling of Putin. There’s also his support for unpopular trade deals in the Pacific and with NAFTA. In many ways, he was a more competent continuation of the American standard foreign policy that came from Clinton and Bush. This foreign policy consensus has clearly fallen apart in key aspects, Afghanistan was a massive mistake, Iraq is a mess as always, Libya is in an on and off civil war with open air slave markets, Syria and Yemen continue to be the worst modern humanitarian disasters in recent memory, and he couldn’t decide if he wanted to take a strong stand with Putin or coordinate for deescalation.\nFinally, there’s just the general fact that this period will likely be remembered as an explosive and key turning point for America. The country is significantly shifting with both sides recognizing the failures of the neoliberal status quo, and Obama was really the last president who wasn’t a product of the new ideological clash. The fact that his Democratic Party backed a worthless candidate in 2016 will be judged harshly. The fact that he didn’t fight harder against the trump administration will be judged harshly. Him sticking to norms while republicans consistently didn’t will be judged harshly. \nI remember in 2016, Michelle Obama said “when they go low we go high” at that point it seemed like a good positive note. Now it seems part and parcel with the democrats failures in the modern era. They went high and their enemies went low, but a moral high ground won’t matter when abortions banned.",
">\n\nObama era was a wasted opportunity, but nobody really understood how badly republicans would react.\nMostly agree with this. Ive been trying to get Democrats to be way more aggressive with weaponizing the debt ceiling, such as threatening to exit the federal reserve system, because Republicans have no way out of it unless Democrats give them one.\nThe Republicans only power in any occasion is the power Democrats give them since the entire federal credit rating is based on tax dollars that flow from blue states.\nWithout Democratic leaning states paying the nations bills, the Republican party would simply be another confederacy and would quickly devolve into the 'trashy states of America'. Those states would quickly rip themselves apart."
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He'll be remembered as the last decent President before America lost its damn mind. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this.",
">\n\nOverall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.\nObviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.\nSo yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president.",
">\n\n\nbut in terms of matters that are actually relevant\n\nI disagree here. I think his race alone was/is historic, and for that reason alone, he will remain as a well-remembered president in American history. Race played a big role in the 2010s, especially on topics like police brutality and the Black Lives Matter protests, which exploded during this time due to everyone suddenly having a phone with a camera and internet.\nObviously his other stuff is important, but 50-100 years in the future, I don't think people will remember a healthcare bill passed in 2009 or what happened in Afghanistan in 2011. But they will remember who the first Black president was.",
">\n\nLike I said, part of his legacy will obviously be being the first African-American President, but we’re also poised to have a political leaders from minority groups in the future, so I doubt that will be that big a deal say thirty or fifty years from now, and certainly wouldn’t be enough of a reason alone to keep him in good memories historically speaking.\nThat being said, as I said before, in light of his actual accomplishments and what occurred during his two terms in office, he’s likely to be remembered decently. The ACA qualifies as an accomplishment, despite it not being supported by ~50% of Americans, people will remember that as an example of Obama doing something.\nBut most of all, by far, I believe Obama will be remembered for his role in foreign policy, particularly that of the Middle East. He oversaw the end of the Iraq War, the rise of Isis, and the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. He may have achieved mixed results in those regards, but he’ll still definitely be remembered for those events mainly, because to put it plainly, they’re the most significant.\nAs for police brutality and the rise of BLM, most events in that regard occurred late in Trump’s term. Trump was elected mainly due to dissatisfaction with the ruling establishment in the mid-2010s, sort of the runoff of the Tea Party movement. Racial tensions played little to no role in his Presidency until 2020.\nThat being said, Trump is unlikely to be remembered fondly by historians, (unless he somehow gets re-elected in 2024 Grover Cleveland style and turns it around). I try to be as politically neutral as possible with my reasoning, but for obvious reasons Trump will be remembered poorly, that’s kind of just a fact. Honestly I doubt in thirty or fifty years many people will remember much about him besides Jan 6/the election plus tweets.",
">\n\nI think Obama, in 50-100 years will be considered a Great President. He overcame few hurdles any previous president even faced. Never mind manage the country through the Great Recession without a single scandal.\nObama, in my opinion, is one of the “cleanest” presidents we’ve ever had. In my view, Obama was the least corrupt president in the post war period.\nNo, I am not one of those people who blames Obama for what followed. Because the only people responsible for what followed where those who did what they did. I’m not a big fan of “you made me feel this way so I did this super shitty thing to people therefor it’s your fault” weak minded propaganda.",
">\n\nThe only cleaner post war one was Carter. I think Obama’s true legacy is that he was an adequately effective politician and competent executive without being a scumbag. It doesn’t sound like much, but judging by the rest field it must be pretty difficult.",
">\n\nI live in Atlanta, and Barack Obama is (not surprisingly) almost immortal here. Tire shops, diners, gas stations have framed photos of him and Michelle on their wall and good luck to whomever decides to take those photos down. Uber drivers have his photo on their dash. I was at an estate sale the other day and the person who passed had a 10 ft x 16 ft painting commission done of the Obamas and it was in their living room.\nI am not Black, but I don't think it's quite possible to overstate the impact of a black president for so many African Americans. Give the farm teams of both parties, it's probably likely to say outside of an unpredictable event (ie. Biden dying), we probably will not see another Black president for a while. \nNow obviously you don't have to go very far north in Georgia is see a lot of Trump love, but even that is waning, and soon those folks will be on to the next thing.\nI think Obama's legacy will live on for a very long time.",
">\n\nYou’re noting Obama and Trump voters as two completely separate entities which they are not. They never ran against each other, and it’s likely that millions of people who voted for Obama later voted for Trump. I think one of the best sources for OPs question would come from some of these Obama-to-Trump voters, their reasons for doing so and the thought-processes behind it.",
">\n\nThat is only true in some areas (ie. Philly). It is statistically not true in Atlanta.",
">\n\nObama is extremely charismatic and intelligent, which definitely helps his current popularity. Future generations will just judge him based on achievements, so I think his popularity will decline on that alone.",
">\n\nAs a few others have said, I think from a policy and political standpoint he'll be remembered as a stable but ineffectual leader who basically didn't rock the boat.\nMore than that though, I think he'll be remembered for the immense social change that occurred during his administration. Marijuana, homosexuality, and many more things became widely accepted or legalized during this time. I think people will view Obama's presidency as one of great social progress but political stagnation.",
">\n\nDidn’t rock the boat? Republicans tuned their entire identity to “abolishing Obamacare.” I think people don’t really understand how radical most people in the country think Obama was.",
">\n\nI think he will likely be downgraded as time goes on for his tendency to be overly moderate, wasting political capital, continuing many foreign policy mistakes, and not doing anything to shore up American democracy. \nTo begin, I think all sides of the equation are rightfully increasingly dismissive of the game of moderate compromise politics he traded in. Many other posters have mentioned the ACA as a major political victory of his but even at the time people were frustrated at how much energy he wasted getting through a watered down proposal that was frankly not enough to deal with America’s healthcare crisis. Similarly, he’ll be remembered for not protecting Roe v Wade and being not nearly supportive enough on civil rights issues like the early BLM and gay rights movements. So amongst his main group of supporters the general tendency leftward in recent years indicates he’ll likely be perceived as too moderate and truly wasting the super majority he had.\nOn Foreign Policy, you have a continuation of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, a hawkish attitude on Libya, Syria and Yemen, massive drone strike campaigns, and his general poor handling of Putin. There’s also his support for unpopular trade deals in the Pacific and with NAFTA. In many ways, he was a more competent continuation of the American standard foreign policy that came from Clinton and Bush. This foreign policy consensus has clearly fallen apart in key aspects, Afghanistan was a massive mistake, Iraq is a mess as always, Libya is in an on and off civil war with open air slave markets, Syria and Yemen continue to be the worst modern humanitarian disasters in recent memory, and he couldn’t decide if he wanted to take a strong stand with Putin or coordinate for deescalation.\nFinally, there’s just the general fact that this period will likely be remembered as an explosive and key turning point for America. The country is significantly shifting with both sides recognizing the failures of the neoliberal status quo, and Obama was really the last president who wasn’t a product of the new ideological clash. The fact that his Democratic Party backed a worthless candidate in 2016 will be judged harshly. The fact that he didn’t fight harder against the trump administration will be judged harshly. Him sticking to norms while republicans consistently didn’t will be judged harshly. \nI remember in 2016, Michelle Obama said “when they go low we go high” at that point it seemed like a good positive note. Now it seems part and parcel with the democrats failures in the modern era. They went high and their enemies went low, but a moral high ground won’t matter when abortions banned.",
">\n\nObama era was a wasted opportunity, but nobody really understood how badly republicans would react.\nMostly agree with this. Ive been trying to get Democrats to be way more aggressive with weaponizing the debt ceiling, such as threatening to exit the federal reserve system, because Republicans have no way out of it unless Democrats give them one.\nThe Republicans only power in any occasion is the power Democrats give them since the entire federal credit rating is based on tax dollars that flow from blue states.\nWithout Democratic leaning states paying the nations bills, the Republican party would simply be another confederacy and would quickly devolve into the 'trashy states of America'. Those states would quickly rip themselves apart.",
">\n\nWas he windsurfing or para-sailing during the first weekend of the Trump presidency when the country was protesting the Muslim ban?"
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Yep. Remember his and McCain ruining against each other? McCain was on the trial defending Obama as a good man, Obama was calling him a war hero. Both were honorable. It’s insane that was only 15 years ago. We live in a different country now. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this.",
">\n\nOverall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.\nObviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.\nSo yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president.",
">\n\n\nbut in terms of matters that are actually relevant\n\nI disagree here. I think his race alone was/is historic, and for that reason alone, he will remain as a well-remembered president in American history. Race played a big role in the 2010s, especially on topics like police brutality and the Black Lives Matter protests, which exploded during this time due to everyone suddenly having a phone with a camera and internet.\nObviously his other stuff is important, but 50-100 years in the future, I don't think people will remember a healthcare bill passed in 2009 or what happened in Afghanistan in 2011. But they will remember who the first Black president was.",
">\n\nLike I said, part of his legacy will obviously be being the first African-American President, but we’re also poised to have a political leaders from minority groups in the future, so I doubt that will be that big a deal say thirty or fifty years from now, and certainly wouldn’t be enough of a reason alone to keep him in good memories historically speaking.\nThat being said, as I said before, in light of his actual accomplishments and what occurred during his two terms in office, he’s likely to be remembered decently. The ACA qualifies as an accomplishment, despite it not being supported by ~50% of Americans, people will remember that as an example of Obama doing something.\nBut most of all, by far, I believe Obama will be remembered for his role in foreign policy, particularly that of the Middle East. He oversaw the end of the Iraq War, the rise of Isis, and the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. He may have achieved mixed results in those regards, but he’ll still definitely be remembered for those events mainly, because to put it plainly, they’re the most significant.\nAs for police brutality and the rise of BLM, most events in that regard occurred late in Trump’s term. Trump was elected mainly due to dissatisfaction with the ruling establishment in the mid-2010s, sort of the runoff of the Tea Party movement. Racial tensions played little to no role in his Presidency until 2020.\nThat being said, Trump is unlikely to be remembered fondly by historians, (unless he somehow gets re-elected in 2024 Grover Cleveland style and turns it around). I try to be as politically neutral as possible with my reasoning, but for obvious reasons Trump will be remembered poorly, that’s kind of just a fact. Honestly I doubt in thirty or fifty years many people will remember much about him besides Jan 6/the election plus tweets.",
">\n\nI think Obama, in 50-100 years will be considered a Great President. He overcame few hurdles any previous president even faced. Never mind manage the country through the Great Recession without a single scandal.\nObama, in my opinion, is one of the “cleanest” presidents we’ve ever had. In my view, Obama was the least corrupt president in the post war period.\nNo, I am not one of those people who blames Obama for what followed. Because the only people responsible for what followed where those who did what they did. I’m not a big fan of “you made me feel this way so I did this super shitty thing to people therefor it’s your fault” weak minded propaganda.",
">\n\nThe only cleaner post war one was Carter. I think Obama’s true legacy is that he was an adequately effective politician and competent executive without being a scumbag. It doesn’t sound like much, but judging by the rest field it must be pretty difficult.",
">\n\nI live in Atlanta, and Barack Obama is (not surprisingly) almost immortal here. Tire shops, diners, gas stations have framed photos of him and Michelle on their wall and good luck to whomever decides to take those photos down. Uber drivers have his photo on their dash. I was at an estate sale the other day and the person who passed had a 10 ft x 16 ft painting commission done of the Obamas and it was in their living room.\nI am not Black, but I don't think it's quite possible to overstate the impact of a black president for so many African Americans. Give the farm teams of both parties, it's probably likely to say outside of an unpredictable event (ie. Biden dying), we probably will not see another Black president for a while. \nNow obviously you don't have to go very far north in Georgia is see a lot of Trump love, but even that is waning, and soon those folks will be on to the next thing.\nI think Obama's legacy will live on for a very long time.",
">\n\nYou’re noting Obama and Trump voters as two completely separate entities which they are not. They never ran against each other, and it’s likely that millions of people who voted for Obama later voted for Trump. I think one of the best sources for OPs question would come from some of these Obama-to-Trump voters, their reasons for doing so and the thought-processes behind it.",
">\n\nThat is only true in some areas (ie. Philly). It is statistically not true in Atlanta.",
">\n\nObama is extremely charismatic and intelligent, which definitely helps his current popularity. Future generations will just judge him based on achievements, so I think his popularity will decline on that alone.",
">\n\nAs a few others have said, I think from a policy and political standpoint he'll be remembered as a stable but ineffectual leader who basically didn't rock the boat.\nMore than that though, I think he'll be remembered for the immense social change that occurred during his administration. Marijuana, homosexuality, and many more things became widely accepted or legalized during this time. I think people will view Obama's presidency as one of great social progress but political stagnation.",
">\n\nDidn’t rock the boat? Republicans tuned their entire identity to “abolishing Obamacare.” I think people don’t really understand how radical most people in the country think Obama was.",
">\n\nI think he will likely be downgraded as time goes on for his tendency to be overly moderate, wasting political capital, continuing many foreign policy mistakes, and not doing anything to shore up American democracy. \nTo begin, I think all sides of the equation are rightfully increasingly dismissive of the game of moderate compromise politics he traded in. Many other posters have mentioned the ACA as a major political victory of his but even at the time people were frustrated at how much energy he wasted getting through a watered down proposal that was frankly not enough to deal with America’s healthcare crisis. Similarly, he’ll be remembered for not protecting Roe v Wade and being not nearly supportive enough on civil rights issues like the early BLM and gay rights movements. So amongst his main group of supporters the general tendency leftward in recent years indicates he’ll likely be perceived as too moderate and truly wasting the super majority he had.\nOn Foreign Policy, you have a continuation of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, a hawkish attitude on Libya, Syria and Yemen, massive drone strike campaigns, and his general poor handling of Putin. There’s also his support for unpopular trade deals in the Pacific and with NAFTA. In many ways, he was a more competent continuation of the American standard foreign policy that came from Clinton and Bush. This foreign policy consensus has clearly fallen apart in key aspects, Afghanistan was a massive mistake, Iraq is a mess as always, Libya is in an on and off civil war with open air slave markets, Syria and Yemen continue to be the worst modern humanitarian disasters in recent memory, and he couldn’t decide if he wanted to take a strong stand with Putin or coordinate for deescalation.\nFinally, there’s just the general fact that this period will likely be remembered as an explosive and key turning point for America. The country is significantly shifting with both sides recognizing the failures of the neoliberal status quo, and Obama was really the last president who wasn’t a product of the new ideological clash. The fact that his Democratic Party backed a worthless candidate in 2016 will be judged harshly. The fact that he didn’t fight harder against the trump administration will be judged harshly. Him sticking to norms while republicans consistently didn’t will be judged harshly. \nI remember in 2016, Michelle Obama said “when they go low we go high” at that point it seemed like a good positive note. Now it seems part and parcel with the democrats failures in the modern era. They went high and their enemies went low, but a moral high ground won’t matter when abortions banned.",
">\n\nObama era was a wasted opportunity, but nobody really understood how badly republicans would react.\nMostly agree with this. Ive been trying to get Democrats to be way more aggressive with weaponizing the debt ceiling, such as threatening to exit the federal reserve system, because Republicans have no way out of it unless Democrats give them one.\nThe Republicans only power in any occasion is the power Democrats give them since the entire federal credit rating is based on tax dollars that flow from blue states.\nWithout Democratic leaning states paying the nations bills, the Republican party would simply be another confederacy and would quickly devolve into the 'trashy states of America'. Those states would quickly rip themselves apart.",
">\n\nWas he windsurfing or para-sailing during the first weekend of the Trump presidency when the country was protesting the Muslim ban?",
">\n\nHe'll be remembered as the last decent President before America lost its damn mind."
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If they actually were talking good about each other in their presidential debate that's quite heartwarming , trump vs Clinton and trump vs biden speeches were complete shitshows with both of them just trashing each other | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this.",
">\n\nOverall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.\nObviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.\nSo yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president.",
">\n\n\nbut in terms of matters that are actually relevant\n\nI disagree here. I think his race alone was/is historic, and for that reason alone, he will remain as a well-remembered president in American history. Race played a big role in the 2010s, especially on topics like police brutality and the Black Lives Matter protests, which exploded during this time due to everyone suddenly having a phone with a camera and internet.\nObviously his other stuff is important, but 50-100 years in the future, I don't think people will remember a healthcare bill passed in 2009 or what happened in Afghanistan in 2011. But they will remember who the first Black president was.",
">\n\nLike I said, part of his legacy will obviously be being the first African-American President, but we’re also poised to have a political leaders from minority groups in the future, so I doubt that will be that big a deal say thirty or fifty years from now, and certainly wouldn’t be enough of a reason alone to keep him in good memories historically speaking.\nThat being said, as I said before, in light of his actual accomplishments and what occurred during his two terms in office, he’s likely to be remembered decently. The ACA qualifies as an accomplishment, despite it not being supported by ~50% of Americans, people will remember that as an example of Obama doing something.\nBut most of all, by far, I believe Obama will be remembered for his role in foreign policy, particularly that of the Middle East. He oversaw the end of the Iraq War, the rise of Isis, and the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. He may have achieved mixed results in those regards, but he’ll still definitely be remembered for those events mainly, because to put it plainly, they’re the most significant.\nAs for police brutality and the rise of BLM, most events in that regard occurred late in Trump’s term. Trump was elected mainly due to dissatisfaction with the ruling establishment in the mid-2010s, sort of the runoff of the Tea Party movement. Racial tensions played little to no role in his Presidency until 2020.\nThat being said, Trump is unlikely to be remembered fondly by historians, (unless he somehow gets re-elected in 2024 Grover Cleveland style and turns it around). I try to be as politically neutral as possible with my reasoning, but for obvious reasons Trump will be remembered poorly, that’s kind of just a fact. Honestly I doubt in thirty or fifty years many people will remember much about him besides Jan 6/the election plus tweets.",
">\n\nI think Obama, in 50-100 years will be considered a Great President. He overcame few hurdles any previous president even faced. Never mind manage the country through the Great Recession without a single scandal.\nObama, in my opinion, is one of the “cleanest” presidents we’ve ever had. In my view, Obama was the least corrupt president in the post war period.\nNo, I am not one of those people who blames Obama for what followed. Because the only people responsible for what followed where those who did what they did. I’m not a big fan of “you made me feel this way so I did this super shitty thing to people therefor it’s your fault” weak minded propaganda.",
">\n\nThe only cleaner post war one was Carter. I think Obama’s true legacy is that he was an adequately effective politician and competent executive without being a scumbag. It doesn’t sound like much, but judging by the rest field it must be pretty difficult.",
">\n\nI live in Atlanta, and Barack Obama is (not surprisingly) almost immortal here. Tire shops, diners, gas stations have framed photos of him and Michelle on their wall and good luck to whomever decides to take those photos down. Uber drivers have his photo on their dash. I was at an estate sale the other day and the person who passed had a 10 ft x 16 ft painting commission done of the Obamas and it was in their living room.\nI am not Black, but I don't think it's quite possible to overstate the impact of a black president for so many African Americans. Give the farm teams of both parties, it's probably likely to say outside of an unpredictable event (ie. Biden dying), we probably will not see another Black president for a while. \nNow obviously you don't have to go very far north in Georgia is see a lot of Trump love, but even that is waning, and soon those folks will be on to the next thing.\nI think Obama's legacy will live on for a very long time.",
">\n\nYou’re noting Obama and Trump voters as two completely separate entities which they are not. They never ran against each other, and it’s likely that millions of people who voted for Obama later voted for Trump. I think one of the best sources for OPs question would come from some of these Obama-to-Trump voters, their reasons for doing so and the thought-processes behind it.",
">\n\nThat is only true in some areas (ie. Philly). It is statistically not true in Atlanta.",
">\n\nObama is extremely charismatic and intelligent, which definitely helps his current popularity. Future generations will just judge him based on achievements, so I think his popularity will decline on that alone.",
">\n\nAs a few others have said, I think from a policy and political standpoint he'll be remembered as a stable but ineffectual leader who basically didn't rock the boat.\nMore than that though, I think he'll be remembered for the immense social change that occurred during his administration. Marijuana, homosexuality, and many more things became widely accepted or legalized during this time. I think people will view Obama's presidency as one of great social progress but political stagnation.",
">\n\nDidn’t rock the boat? Republicans tuned their entire identity to “abolishing Obamacare.” I think people don’t really understand how radical most people in the country think Obama was.",
">\n\nI think he will likely be downgraded as time goes on for his tendency to be overly moderate, wasting political capital, continuing many foreign policy mistakes, and not doing anything to shore up American democracy. \nTo begin, I think all sides of the equation are rightfully increasingly dismissive of the game of moderate compromise politics he traded in. Many other posters have mentioned the ACA as a major political victory of his but even at the time people were frustrated at how much energy he wasted getting through a watered down proposal that was frankly not enough to deal with America’s healthcare crisis. Similarly, he’ll be remembered for not protecting Roe v Wade and being not nearly supportive enough on civil rights issues like the early BLM and gay rights movements. So amongst his main group of supporters the general tendency leftward in recent years indicates he’ll likely be perceived as too moderate and truly wasting the super majority he had.\nOn Foreign Policy, you have a continuation of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, a hawkish attitude on Libya, Syria and Yemen, massive drone strike campaigns, and his general poor handling of Putin. There’s also his support for unpopular trade deals in the Pacific and with NAFTA. In many ways, he was a more competent continuation of the American standard foreign policy that came from Clinton and Bush. This foreign policy consensus has clearly fallen apart in key aspects, Afghanistan was a massive mistake, Iraq is a mess as always, Libya is in an on and off civil war with open air slave markets, Syria and Yemen continue to be the worst modern humanitarian disasters in recent memory, and he couldn’t decide if he wanted to take a strong stand with Putin or coordinate for deescalation.\nFinally, there’s just the general fact that this period will likely be remembered as an explosive and key turning point for America. The country is significantly shifting with both sides recognizing the failures of the neoliberal status quo, and Obama was really the last president who wasn’t a product of the new ideological clash. The fact that his Democratic Party backed a worthless candidate in 2016 will be judged harshly. The fact that he didn’t fight harder against the trump administration will be judged harshly. Him sticking to norms while republicans consistently didn’t will be judged harshly. \nI remember in 2016, Michelle Obama said “when they go low we go high” at that point it seemed like a good positive note. Now it seems part and parcel with the democrats failures in the modern era. They went high and their enemies went low, but a moral high ground won’t matter when abortions banned.",
">\n\nObama era was a wasted opportunity, but nobody really understood how badly republicans would react.\nMostly agree with this. Ive been trying to get Democrats to be way more aggressive with weaponizing the debt ceiling, such as threatening to exit the federal reserve system, because Republicans have no way out of it unless Democrats give them one.\nThe Republicans only power in any occasion is the power Democrats give them since the entire federal credit rating is based on tax dollars that flow from blue states.\nWithout Democratic leaning states paying the nations bills, the Republican party would simply be another confederacy and would quickly devolve into the 'trashy states of America'. Those states would quickly rip themselves apart.",
">\n\nWas he windsurfing or para-sailing during the first weekend of the Trump presidency when the country was protesting the Muslim ban?",
">\n\nHe'll be remembered as the last decent President before America lost its damn mind.",
">\n\nYep. Remember his and McCain ruining against each other? McCain was on the trial defending Obama as a good man, Obama was calling him a war hero. Both were honorable. It’s insane that was only 15 years ago. We live in a different country now."
] |
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See if you can look up some old news videos. Sure, both sides had their differences and did a lot of mudslinging, but Obama, McCain, and even Romney all showed mutual respect for each other. They'll shit talk each other during the campaign to some degree, but they were all mostly good to each other and defended each other's character when someone went too far, McCain especially.
... That level of political respect basically evaporated the moment Trump announced his candidacy. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this.",
">\n\nOverall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.\nObviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.\nSo yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president.",
">\n\n\nbut in terms of matters that are actually relevant\n\nI disagree here. I think his race alone was/is historic, and for that reason alone, he will remain as a well-remembered president in American history. Race played a big role in the 2010s, especially on topics like police brutality and the Black Lives Matter protests, which exploded during this time due to everyone suddenly having a phone with a camera and internet.\nObviously his other stuff is important, but 50-100 years in the future, I don't think people will remember a healthcare bill passed in 2009 or what happened in Afghanistan in 2011. But they will remember who the first Black president was.",
">\n\nLike I said, part of his legacy will obviously be being the first African-American President, but we’re also poised to have a political leaders from minority groups in the future, so I doubt that will be that big a deal say thirty or fifty years from now, and certainly wouldn’t be enough of a reason alone to keep him in good memories historically speaking.\nThat being said, as I said before, in light of his actual accomplishments and what occurred during his two terms in office, he’s likely to be remembered decently. The ACA qualifies as an accomplishment, despite it not being supported by ~50% of Americans, people will remember that as an example of Obama doing something.\nBut most of all, by far, I believe Obama will be remembered for his role in foreign policy, particularly that of the Middle East. He oversaw the end of the Iraq War, the rise of Isis, and the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. He may have achieved mixed results in those regards, but he’ll still definitely be remembered for those events mainly, because to put it plainly, they’re the most significant.\nAs for police brutality and the rise of BLM, most events in that regard occurred late in Trump’s term. Trump was elected mainly due to dissatisfaction with the ruling establishment in the mid-2010s, sort of the runoff of the Tea Party movement. Racial tensions played little to no role in his Presidency until 2020.\nThat being said, Trump is unlikely to be remembered fondly by historians, (unless he somehow gets re-elected in 2024 Grover Cleveland style and turns it around). I try to be as politically neutral as possible with my reasoning, but for obvious reasons Trump will be remembered poorly, that’s kind of just a fact. Honestly I doubt in thirty or fifty years many people will remember much about him besides Jan 6/the election plus tweets.",
">\n\nI think Obama, in 50-100 years will be considered a Great President. He overcame few hurdles any previous president even faced. Never mind manage the country through the Great Recession without a single scandal.\nObama, in my opinion, is one of the “cleanest” presidents we’ve ever had. In my view, Obama was the least corrupt president in the post war period.\nNo, I am not one of those people who blames Obama for what followed. Because the only people responsible for what followed where those who did what they did. I’m not a big fan of “you made me feel this way so I did this super shitty thing to people therefor it’s your fault” weak minded propaganda.",
">\n\nThe only cleaner post war one was Carter. I think Obama’s true legacy is that he was an adequately effective politician and competent executive without being a scumbag. It doesn’t sound like much, but judging by the rest field it must be pretty difficult.",
">\n\nI live in Atlanta, and Barack Obama is (not surprisingly) almost immortal here. Tire shops, diners, gas stations have framed photos of him and Michelle on their wall and good luck to whomever decides to take those photos down. Uber drivers have his photo on their dash. I was at an estate sale the other day and the person who passed had a 10 ft x 16 ft painting commission done of the Obamas and it was in their living room.\nI am not Black, but I don't think it's quite possible to overstate the impact of a black president for so many African Americans. Give the farm teams of both parties, it's probably likely to say outside of an unpredictable event (ie. Biden dying), we probably will not see another Black president for a while. \nNow obviously you don't have to go very far north in Georgia is see a lot of Trump love, but even that is waning, and soon those folks will be on to the next thing.\nI think Obama's legacy will live on for a very long time.",
">\n\nYou’re noting Obama and Trump voters as two completely separate entities which they are not. They never ran against each other, and it’s likely that millions of people who voted for Obama later voted for Trump. I think one of the best sources for OPs question would come from some of these Obama-to-Trump voters, their reasons for doing so and the thought-processes behind it.",
">\n\nThat is only true in some areas (ie. Philly). It is statistically not true in Atlanta.",
">\n\nObama is extremely charismatic and intelligent, which definitely helps his current popularity. Future generations will just judge him based on achievements, so I think his popularity will decline on that alone.",
">\n\nAs a few others have said, I think from a policy and political standpoint he'll be remembered as a stable but ineffectual leader who basically didn't rock the boat.\nMore than that though, I think he'll be remembered for the immense social change that occurred during his administration. Marijuana, homosexuality, and many more things became widely accepted or legalized during this time. I think people will view Obama's presidency as one of great social progress but political stagnation.",
">\n\nDidn’t rock the boat? Republicans tuned their entire identity to “abolishing Obamacare.” I think people don’t really understand how radical most people in the country think Obama was.",
">\n\nI think he will likely be downgraded as time goes on for his tendency to be overly moderate, wasting political capital, continuing many foreign policy mistakes, and not doing anything to shore up American democracy. \nTo begin, I think all sides of the equation are rightfully increasingly dismissive of the game of moderate compromise politics he traded in. Many other posters have mentioned the ACA as a major political victory of his but even at the time people were frustrated at how much energy he wasted getting through a watered down proposal that was frankly not enough to deal with America’s healthcare crisis. Similarly, he’ll be remembered for not protecting Roe v Wade and being not nearly supportive enough on civil rights issues like the early BLM and gay rights movements. So amongst his main group of supporters the general tendency leftward in recent years indicates he’ll likely be perceived as too moderate and truly wasting the super majority he had.\nOn Foreign Policy, you have a continuation of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, a hawkish attitude on Libya, Syria and Yemen, massive drone strike campaigns, and his general poor handling of Putin. There’s also his support for unpopular trade deals in the Pacific and with NAFTA. In many ways, he was a more competent continuation of the American standard foreign policy that came from Clinton and Bush. This foreign policy consensus has clearly fallen apart in key aspects, Afghanistan was a massive mistake, Iraq is a mess as always, Libya is in an on and off civil war with open air slave markets, Syria and Yemen continue to be the worst modern humanitarian disasters in recent memory, and he couldn’t decide if he wanted to take a strong stand with Putin or coordinate for deescalation.\nFinally, there’s just the general fact that this period will likely be remembered as an explosive and key turning point for America. The country is significantly shifting with both sides recognizing the failures of the neoliberal status quo, and Obama was really the last president who wasn’t a product of the new ideological clash. The fact that his Democratic Party backed a worthless candidate in 2016 will be judged harshly. The fact that he didn’t fight harder against the trump administration will be judged harshly. Him sticking to norms while republicans consistently didn’t will be judged harshly. \nI remember in 2016, Michelle Obama said “when they go low we go high” at that point it seemed like a good positive note. Now it seems part and parcel with the democrats failures in the modern era. They went high and their enemies went low, but a moral high ground won’t matter when abortions banned.",
">\n\nObama era was a wasted opportunity, but nobody really understood how badly republicans would react.\nMostly agree with this. Ive been trying to get Democrats to be way more aggressive with weaponizing the debt ceiling, such as threatening to exit the federal reserve system, because Republicans have no way out of it unless Democrats give them one.\nThe Republicans only power in any occasion is the power Democrats give them since the entire federal credit rating is based on tax dollars that flow from blue states.\nWithout Democratic leaning states paying the nations bills, the Republican party would simply be another confederacy and would quickly devolve into the 'trashy states of America'. Those states would quickly rip themselves apart.",
">\n\nWas he windsurfing or para-sailing during the first weekend of the Trump presidency when the country was protesting the Muslim ban?",
">\n\nHe'll be remembered as the last decent President before America lost its damn mind.",
">\n\nYep. Remember his and McCain ruining against each other? McCain was on the trial defending Obama as a good man, Obama was calling him a war hero. Both were honorable. It’s insane that was only 15 years ago. We live in a different country now.",
">\n\nIf they actually were talking good about each other in their presidential debate that's quite heartwarming , trump vs Clinton and trump vs biden speeches were complete shitshows with both of them just trashing each other"
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I think Obama will rated as a middle of the road, maybe a little higher. He was an effective president and will be rated as so. But he will be downgraded because his ceiling was so high. And frankly a once in a generation talent politician, a very effective organizer of his coalition plus being the first Black President, he should have been more effective. Time will tell, but on paper he should have accomplished a hell of a lot more. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this.",
">\n\nOverall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.\nObviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.\nSo yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president.",
">\n\n\nbut in terms of matters that are actually relevant\n\nI disagree here. I think his race alone was/is historic, and for that reason alone, he will remain as a well-remembered president in American history. Race played a big role in the 2010s, especially on topics like police brutality and the Black Lives Matter protests, which exploded during this time due to everyone suddenly having a phone with a camera and internet.\nObviously his other stuff is important, but 50-100 years in the future, I don't think people will remember a healthcare bill passed in 2009 or what happened in Afghanistan in 2011. But they will remember who the first Black president was.",
">\n\nLike I said, part of his legacy will obviously be being the first African-American President, but we’re also poised to have a political leaders from minority groups in the future, so I doubt that will be that big a deal say thirty or fifty years from now, and certainly wouldn’t be enough of a reason alone to keep him in good memories historically speaking.\nThat being said, as I said before, in light of his actual accomplishments and what occurred during his two terms in office, he’s likely to be remembered decently. The ACA qualifies as an accomplishment, despite it not being supported by ~50% of Americans, people will remember that as an example of Obama doing something.\nBut most of all, by far, I believe Obama will be remembered for his role in foreign policy, particularly that of the Middle East. He oversaw the end of the Iraq War, the rise of Isis, and the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. He may have achieved mixed results in those regards, but he’ll still definitely be remembered for those events mainly, because to put it plainly, they’re the most significant.\nAs for police brutality and the rise of BLM, most events in that regard occurred late in Trump’s term. Trump was elected mainly due to dissatisfaction with the ruling establishment in the mid-2010s, sort of the runoff of the Tea Party movement. Racial tensions played little to no role in his Presidency until 2020.\nThat being said, Trump is unlikely to be remembered fondly by historians, (unless he somehow gets re-elected in 2024 Grover Cleveland style and turns it around). I try to be as politically neutral as possible with my reasoning, but for obvious reasons Trump will be remembered poorly, that’s kind of just a fact. Honestly I doubt in thirty or fifty years many people will remember much about him besides Jan 6/the election plus tweets.",
">\n\nI think Obama, in 50-100 years will be considered a Great President. He overcame few hurdles any previous president even faced. Never mind manage the country through the Great Recession without a single scandal.\nObama, in my opinion, is one of the “cleanest” presidents we’ve ever had. In my view, Obama was the least corrupt president in the post war period.\nNo, I am not one of those people who blames Obama for what followed. Because the only people responsible for what followed where those who did what they did. I’m not a big fan of “you made me feel this way so I did this super shitty thing to people therefor it’s your fault” weak minded propaganda.",
">\n\nThe only cleaner post war one was Carter. I think Obama’s true legacy is that he was an adequately effective politician and competent executive without being a scumbag. It doesn’t sound like much, but judging by the rest field it must be pretty difficult.",
">\n\nI live in Atlanta, and Barack Obama is (not surprisingly) almost immortal here. Tire shops, diners, gas stations have framed photos of him and Michelle on their wall and good luck to whomever decides to take those photos down. Uber drivers have his photo on their dash. I was at an estate sale the other day and the person who passed had a 10 ft x 16 ft painting commission done of the Obamas and it was in their living room.\nI am not Black, but I don't think it's quite possible to overstate the impact of a black president for so many African Americans. Give the farm teams of both parties, it's probably likely to say outside of an unpredictable event (ie. Biden dying), we probably will not see another Black president for a while. \nNow obviously you don't have to go very far north in Georgia is see a lot of Trump love, but even that is waning, and soon those folks will be on to the next thing.\nI think Obama's legacy will live on for a very long time.",
">\n\nYou’re noting Obama and Trump voters as two completely separate entities which they are not. They never ran against each other, and it’s likely that millions of people who voted for Obama later voted for Trump. I think one of the best sources for OPs question would come from some of these Obama-to-Trump voters, their reasons for doing so and the thought-processes behind it.",
">\n\nThat is only true in some areas (ie. Philly). It is statistically not true in Atlanta.",
">\n\nObama is extremely charismatic and intelligent, which definitely helps his current popularity. Future generations will just judge him based on achievements, so I think his popularity will decline on that alone.",
">\n\nAs a few others have said, I think from a policy and political standpoint he'll be remembered as a stable but ineffectual leader who basically didn't rock the boat.\nMore than that though, I think he'll be remembered for the immense social change that occurred during his administration. Marijuana, homosexuality, and many more things became widely accepted or legalized during this time. I think people will view Obama's presidency as one of great social progress but political stagnation.",
">\n\nDidn’t rock the boat? Republicans tuned their entire identity to “abolishing Obamacare.” I think people don’t really understand how radical most people in the country think Obama was.",
">\n\nI think he will likely be downgraded as time goes on for his tendency to be overly moderate, wasting political capital, continuing many foreign policy mistakes, and not doing anything to shore up American democracy. \nTo begin, I think all sides of the equation are rightfully increasingly dismissive of the game of moderate compromise politics he traded in. Many other posters have mentioned the ACA as a major political victory of his but even at the time people were frustrated at how much energy he wasted getting through a watered down proposal that was frankly not enough to deal with America’s healthcare crisis. Similarly, he’ll be remembered for not protecting Roe v Wade and being not nearly supportive enough on civil rights issues like the early BLM and gay rights movements. So amongst his main group of supporters the general tendency leftward in recent years indicates he’ll likely be perceived as too moderate and truly wasting the super majority he had.\nOn Foreign Policy, you have a continuation of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, a hawkish attitude on Libya, Syria and Yemen, massive drone strike campaigns, and his general poor handling of Putin. There’s also his support for unpopular trade deals in the Pacific and with NAFTA. In many ways, he was a more competent continuation of the American standard foreign policy that came from Clinton and Bush. This foreign policy consensus has clearly fallen apart in key aspects, Afghanistan was a massive mistake, Iraq is a mess as always, Libya is in an on and off civil war with open air slave markets, Syria and Yemen continue to be the worst modern humanitarian disasters in recent memory, and he couldn’t decide if he wanted to take a strong stand with Putin or coordinate for deescalation.\nFinally, there’s just the general fact that this period will likely be remembered as an explosive and key turning point for America. The country is significantly shifting with both sides recognizing the failures of the neoliberal status quo, and Obama was really the last president who wasn’t a product of the new ideological clash. The fact that his Democratic Party backed a worthless candidate in 2016 will be judged harshly. The fact that he didn’t fight harder against the trump administration will be judged harshly. Him sticking to norms while republicans consistently didn’t will be judged harshly. \nI remember in 2016, Michelle Obama said “when they go low we go high” at that point it seemed like a good positive note. Now it seems part and parcel with the democrats failures in the modern era. They went high and their enemies went low, but a moral high ground won’t matter when abortions banned.",
">\n\nObama era was a wasted opportunity, but nobody really understood how badly republicans would react.\nMostly agree with this. Ive been trying to get Democrats to be way more aggressive with weaponizing the debt ceiling, such as threatening to exit the federal reserve system, because Republicans have no way out of it unless Democrats give them one.\nThe Republicans only power in any occasion is the power Democrats give them since the entire federal credit rating is based on tax dollars that flow from blue states.\nWithout Democratic leaning states paying the nations bills, the Republican party would simply be another confederacy and would quickly devolve into the 'trashy states of America'. Those states would quickly rip themselves apart.",
">\n\nWas he windsurfing or para-sailing during the first weekend of the Trump presidency when the country was protesting the Muslim ban?",
">\n\nHe'll be remembered as the last decent President before America lost its damn mind.",
">\n\nYep. Remember his and McCain ruining against each other? McCain was on the trial defending Obama as a good man, Obama was calling him a war hero. Both were honorable. It’s insane that was only 15 years ago. We live in a different country now.",
">\n\nIf they actually were talking good about each other in their presidential debate that's quite heartwarming , trump vs Clinton and trump vs biden speeches were complete shitshows with both of them just trashing each other",
">\n\nSee if you can look up some old news videos. Sure, both sides had their differences and did a lot of mudslinging, but Obama, McCain, and even Romney all showed mutual respect for each other. They'll shit talk each other during the campaign to some degree, but they were all mostly good to each other and defended each other's character when someone went too far, McCain especially.\n... That level of political respect basically evaporated the moment Trump announced his candidacy."
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Obama will be remembered positively going forward. His presidency led us out of the horrible financial crisis of the Bush presidency. When he left office the economy was booming in which Trump rode his coattails for the first 18 months of his presidency.
The US was respected around the world. He formed numerous partnerships and joined numerous treaties that left our Country in a stronger standing than before his presidency.
There should have been an investigation of W Bush for his lies about starting the Iraq war. If crimes were committed then there should have been lengthy jail sentences handed down. Instead, there were no investigations or hearings to determine what really happened.
His term was sandwiched between the worse two POTUSs of modern history. So he will be remembered in a more positive light for that reason as well. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this.",
">\n\nOverall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.\nObviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.\nSo yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president.",
">\n\n\nbut in terms of matters that are actually relevant\n\nI disagree here. I think his race alone was/is historic, and for that reason alone, he will remain as a well-remembered president in American history. Race played a big role in the 2010s, especially on topics like police brutality and the Black Lives Matter protests, which exploded during this time due to everyone suddenly having a phone with a camera and internet.\nObviously his other stuff is important, but 50-100 years in the future, I don't think people will remember a healthcare bill passed in 2009 or what happened in Afghanistan in 2011. But they will remember who the first Black president was.",
">\n\nLike I said, part of his legacy will obviously be being the first African-American President, but we’re also poised to have a political leaders from minority groups in the future, so I doubt that will be that big a deal say thirty or fifty years from now, and certainly wouldn’t be enough of a reason alone to keep him in good memories historically speaking.\nThat being said, as I said before, in light of his actual accomplishments and what occurred during his two terms in office, he’s likely to be remembered decently. The ACA qualifies as an accomplishment, despite it not being supported by ~50% of Americans, people will remember that as an example of Obama doing something.\nBut most of all, by far, I believe Obama will be remembered for his role in foreign policy, particularly that of the Middle East. He oversaw the end of the Iraq War, the rise of Isis, and the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. He may have achieved mixed results in those regards, but he’ll still definitely be remembered for those events mainly, because to put it plainly, they’re the most significant.\nAs for police brutality and the rise of BLM, most events in that regard occurred late in Trump’s term. Trump was elected mainly due to dissatisfaction with the ruling establishment in the mid-2010s, sort of the runoff of the Tea Party movement. Racial tensions played little to no role in his Presidency until 2020.\nThat being said, Trump is unlikely to be remembered fondly by historians, (unless he somehow gets re-elected in 2024 Grover Cleveland style and turns it around). I try to be as politically neutral as possible with my reasoning, but for obvious reasons Trump will be remembered poorly, that’s kind of just a fact. Honestly I doubt in thirty or fifty years many people will remember much about him besides Jan 6/the election plus tweets.",
">\n\nI think Obama, in 50-100 years will be considered a Great President. He overcame few hurdles any previous president even faced. Never mind manage the country through the Great Recession without a single scandal.\nObama, in my opinion, is one of the “cleanest” presidents we’ve ever had. In my view, Obama was the least corrupt president in the post war period.\nNo, I am not one of those people who blames Obama for what followed. Because the only people responsible for what followed where those who did what they did. I’m not a big fan of “you made me feel this way so I did this super shitty thing to people therefor it’s your fault” weak minded propaganda.",
">\n\nThe only cleaner post war one was Carter. I think Obama’s true legacy is that he was an adequately effective politician and competent executive without being a scumbag. It doesn’t sound like much, but judging by the rest field it must be pretty difficult.",
">\n\nI live in Atlanta, and Barack Obama is (not surprisingly) almost immortal here. Tire shops, diners, gas stations have framed photos of him and Michelle on their wall and good luck to whomever decides to take those photos down. Uber drivers have his photo on their dash. I was at an estate sale the other day and the person who passed had a 10 ft x 16 ft painting commission done of the Obamas and it was in their living room.\nI am not Black, but I don't think it's quite possible to overstate the impact of a black president for so many African Americans. Give the farm teams of both parties, it's probably likely to say outside of an unpredictable event (ie. Biden dying), we probably will not see another Black president for a while. \nNow obviously you don't have to go very far north in Georgia is see a lot of Trump love, but even that is waning, and soon those folks will be on to the next thing.\nI think Obama's legacy will live on for a very long time.",
">\n\nYou’re noting Obama and Trump voters as two completely separate entities which they are not. They never ran against each other, and it’s likely that millions of people who voted for Obama later voted for Trump. I think one of the best sources for OPs question would come from some of these Obama-to-Trump voters, their reasons for doing so and the thought-processes behind it.",
">\n\nThat is only true in some areas (ie. Philly). It is statistically not true in Atlanta.",
">\n\nObama is extremely charismatic and intelligent, which definitely helps his current popularity. Future generations will just judge him based on achievements, so I think his popularity will decline on that alone.",
">\n\nAs a few others have said, I think from a policy and political standpoint he'll be remembered as a stable but ineffectual leader who basically didn't rock the boat.\nMore than that though, I think he'll be remembered for the immense social change that occurred during his administration. Marijuana, homosexuality, and many more things became widely accepted or legalized during this time. I think people will view Obama's presidency as one of great social progress but political stagnation.",
">\n\nDidn’t rock the boat? Republicans tuned their entire identity to “abolishing Obamacare.” I think people don’t really understand how radical most people in the country think Obama was.",
">\n\nI think he will likely be downgraded as time goes on for his tendency to be overly moderate, wasting political capital, continuing many foreign policy mistakes, and not doing anything to shore up American democracy. \nTo begin, I think all sides of the equation are rightfully increasingly dismissive of the game of moderate compromise politics he traded in. Many other posters have mentioned the ACA as a major political victory of his but even at the time people were frustrated at how much energy he wasted getting through a watered down proposal that was frankly not enough to deal with America’s healthcare crisis. Similarly, he’ll be remembered for not protecting Roe v Wade and being not nearly supportive enough on civil rights issues like the early BLM and gay rights movements. So amongst his main group of supporters the general tendency leftward in recent years indicates he’ll likely be perceived as too moderate and truly wasting the super majority he had.\nOn Foreign Policy, you have a continuation of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, a hawkish attitude on Libya, Syria and Yemen, massive drone strike campaigns, and his general poor handling of Putin. There’s also his support for unpopular trade deals in the Pacific and with NAFTA. In many ways, he was a more competent continuation of the American standard foreign policy that came from Clinton and Bush. This foreign policy consensus has clearly fallen apart in key aspects, Afghanistan was a massive mistake, Iraq is a mess as always, Libya is in an on and off civil war with open air slave markets, Syria and Yemen continue to be the worst modern humanitarian disasters in recent memory, and he couldn’t decide if he wanted to take a strong stand with Putin or coordinate for deescalation.\nFinally, there’s just the general fact that this period will likely be remembered as an explosive and key turning point for America. The country is significantly shifting with both sides recognizing the failures of the neoliberal status quo, and Obama was really the last president who wasn’t a product of the new ideological clash. The fact that his Democratic Party backed a worthless candidate in 2016 will be judged harshly. The fact that he didn’t fight harder against the trump administration will be judged harshly. Him sticking to norms while republicans consistently didn’t will be judged harshly. \nI remember in 2016, Michelle Obama said “when they go low we go high” at that point it seemed like a good positive note. Now it seems part and parcel with the democrats failures in the modern era. They went high and their enemies went low, but a moral high ground won’t matter when abortions banned.",
">\n\nObama era was a wasted opportunity, but nobody really understood how badly republicans would react.\nMostly agree with this. Ive been trying to get Democrats to be way more aggressive with weaponizing the debt ceiling, such as threatening to exit the federal reserve system, because Republicans have no way out of it unless Democrats give them one.\nThe Republicans only power in any occasion is the power Democrats give them since the entire federal credit rating is based on tax dollars that flow from blue states.\nWithout Democratic leaning states paying the nations bills, the Republican party would simply be another confederacy and would quickly devolve into the 'trashy states of America'. Those states would quickly rip themselves apart.",
">\n\nWas he windsurfing or para-sailing during the first weekend of the Trump presidency when the country was protesting the Muslim ban?",
">\n\nHe'll be remembered as the last decent President before America lost its damn mind.",
">\n\nYep. Remember his and McCain ruining against each other? McCain was on the trial defending Obama as a good man, Obama was calling him a war hero. Both were honorable. It’s insane that was only 15 years ago. We live in a different country now.",
">\n\nIf they actually were talking good about each other in their presidential debate that's quite heartwarming , trump vs Clinton and trump vs biden speeches were complete shitshows with both of them just trashing each other",
">\n\nSee if you can look up some old news videos. Sure, both sides had their differences and did a lot of mudslinging, but Obama, McCain, and even Romney all showed mutual respect for each other. They'll shit talk each other during the campaign to some degree, but they were all mostly good to each other and defended each other's character when someone went too far, McCain especially.\n... That level of political respect basically evaporated the moment Trump announced his candidacy.",
">\n\nI think Obama will rated as a middle of the road, maybe a little higher. He was an effective president and will be rated as so. But he will be downgraded because his ceiling was so high. And frankly a once in a generation talent politician, a very effective organizer of his coalition plus being the first Black President, he should have been more effective. Time will tell, but on paper he should have accomplished a hell of a lot more."
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Obama will be viewed as the first victim of open Republican obstructionism and anti-American activity. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this.",
">\n\nOverall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.\nObviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.\nSo yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president.",
">\n\n\nbut in terms of matters that are actually relevant\n\nI disagree here. I think his race alone was/is historic, and for that reason alone, he will remain as a well-remembered president in American history. Race played a big role in the 2010s, especially on topics like police brutality and the Black Lives Matter protests, which exploded during this time due to everyone suddenly having a phone with a camera and internet.\nObviously his other stuff is important, but 50-100 years in the future, I don't think people will remember a healthcare bill passed in 2009 or what happened in Afghanistan in 2011. But they will remember who the first Black president was.",
">\n\nLike I said, part of his legacy will obviously be being the first African-American President, but we’re also poised to have a political leaders from minority groups in the future, so I doubt that will be that big a deal say thirty or fifty years from now, and certainly wouldn’t be enough of a reason alone to keep him in good memories historically speaking.\nThat being said, as I said before, in light of his actual accomplishments and what occurred during his two terms in office, he’s likely to be remembered decently. The ACA qualifies as an accomplishment, despite it not being supported by ~50% of Americans, people will remember that as an example of Obama doing something.\nBut most of all, by far, I believe Obama will be remembered for his role in foreign policy, particularly that of the Middle East. He oversaw the end of the Iraq War, the rise of Isis, and the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. He may have achieved mixed results in those regards, but he’ll still definitely be remembered for those events mainly, because to put it plainly, they’re the most significant.\nAs for police brutality and the rise of BLM, most events in that regard occurred late in Trump’s term. Trump was elected mainly due to dissatisfaction with the ruling establishment in the mid-2010s, sort of the runoff of the Tea Party movement. Racial tensions played little to no role in his Presidency until 2020.\nThat being said, Trump is unlikely to be remembered fondly by historians, (unless he somehow gets re-elected in 2024 Grover Cleveland style and turns it around). I try to be as politically neutral as possible with my reasoning, but for obvious reasons Trump will be remembered poorly, that’s kind of just a fact. Honestly I doubt in thirty or fifty years many people will remember much about him besides Jan 6/the election plus tweets.",
">\n\nI think Obama, in 50-100 years will be considered a Great President. He overcame few hurdles any previous president even faced. Never mind manage the country through the Great Recession without a single scandal.\nObama, in my opinion, is one of the “cleanest” presidents we’ve ever had. In my view, Obama was the least corrupt president in the post war period.\nNo, I am not one of those people who blames Obama for what followed. Because the only people responsible for what followed where those who did what they did. I’m not a big fan of “you made me feel this way so I did this super shitty thing to people therefor it’s your fault” weak minded propaganda.",
">\n\nThe only cleaner post war one was Carter. I think Obama’s true legacy is that he was an adequately effective politician and competent executive without being a scumbag. It doesn’t sound like much, but judging by the rest field it must be pretty difficult.",
">\n\nI live in Atlanta, and Barack Obama is (not surprisingly) almost immortal here. Tire shops, diners, gas stations have framed photos of him and Michelle on their wall and good luck to whomever decides to take those photos down. Uber drivers have his photo on their dash. I was at an estate sale the other day and the person who passed had a 10 ft x 16 ft painting commission done of the Obamas and it was in their living room.\nI am not Black, but I don't think it's quite possible to overstate the impact of a black president for so many African Americans. Give the farm teams of both parties, it's probably likely to say outside of an unpredictable event (ie. Biden dying), we probably will not see another Black president for a while. \nNow obviously you don't have to go very far north in Georgia is see a lot of Trump love, but even that is waning, and soon those folks will be on to the next thing.\nI think Obama's legacy will live on for a very long time.",
">\n\nYou’re noting Obama and Trump voters as two completely separate entities which they are not. They never ran against each other, and it’s likely that millions of people who voted for Obama later voted for Trump. I think one of the best sources for OPs question would come from some of these Obama-to-Trump voters, their reasons for doing so and the thought-processes behind it.",
">\n\nThat is only true in some areas (ie. Philly). It is statistically not true in Atlanta.",
">\n\nObama is extremely charismatic and intelligent, which definitely helps his current popularity. Future generations will just judge him based on achievements, so I think his popularity will decline on that alone.",
">\n\nAs a few others have said, I think from a policy and political standpoint he'll be remembered as a stable but ineffectual leader who basically didn't rock the boat.\nMore than that though, I think he'll be remembered for the immense social change that occurred during his administration. Marijuana, homosexuality, and many more things became widely accepted or legalized during this time. I think people will view Obama's presidency as one of great social progress but political stagnation.",
">\n\nDidn’t rock the boat? Republicans tuned their entire identity to “abolishing Obamacare.” I think people don’t really understand how radical most people in the country think Obama was.",
">\n\nI think he will likely be downgraded as time goes on for his tendency to be overly moderate, wasting political capital, continuing many foreign policy mistakes, and not doing anything to shore up American democracy. \nTo begin, I think all sides of the equation are rightfully increasingly dismissive of the game of moderate compromise politics he traded in. Many other posters have mentioned the ACA as a major political victory of his but even at the time people were frustrated at how much energy he wasted getting through a watered down proposal that was frankly not enough to deal with America’s healthcare crisis. Similarly, he’ll be remembered for not protecting Roe v Wade and being not nearly supportive enough on civil rights issues like the early BLM and gay rights movements. So amongst his main group of supporters the general tendency leftward in recent years indicates he’ll likely be perceived as too moderate and truly wasting the super majority he had.\nOn Foreign Policy, you have a continuation of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, a hawkish attitude on Libya, Syria and Yemen, massive drone strike campaigns, and his general poor handling of Putin. There’s also his support for unpopular trade deals in the Pacific and with NAFTA. In many ways, he was a more competent continuation of the American standard foreign policy that came from Clinton and Bush. This foreign policy consensus has clearly fallen apart in key aspects, Afghanistan was a massive mistake, Iraq is a mess as always, Libya is in an on and off civil war with open air slave markets, Syria and Yemen continue to be the worst modern humanitarian disasters in recent memory, and he couldn’t decide if he wanted to take a strong stand with Putin or coordinate for deescalation.\nFinally, there’s just the general fact that this period will likely be remembered as an explosive and key turning point for America. The country is significantly shifting with both sides recognizing the failures of the neoliberal status quo, and Obama was really the last president who wasn’t a product of the new ideological clash. The fact that his Democratic Party backed a worthless candidate in 2016 will be judged harshly. The fact that he didn’t fight harder against the trump administration will be judged harshly. Him sticking to norms while republicans consistently didn’t will be judged harshly. \nI remember in 2016, Michelle Obama said “when they go low we go high” at that point it seemed like a good positive note. Now it seems part and parcel with the democrats failures in the modern era. They went high and their enemies went low, but a moral high ground won’t matter when abortions banned.",
">\n\nObama era was a wasted opportunity, but nobody really understood how badly republicans would react.\nMostly agree with this. Ive been trying to get Democrats to be way more aggressive with weaponizing the debt ceiling, such as threatening to exit the federal reserve system, because Republicans have no way out of it unless Democrats give them one.\nThe Republicans only power in any occasion is the power Democrats give them since the entire federal credit rating is based on tax dollars that flow from blue states.\nWithout Democratic leaning states paying the nations bills, the Republican party would simply be another confederacy and would quickly devolve into the 'trashy states of America'. Those states would quickly rip themselves apart.",
">\n\nWas he windsurfing or para-sailing during the first weekend of the Trump presidency when the country was protesting the Muslim ban?",
">\n\nHe'll be remembered as the last decent President before America lost its damn mind.",
">\n\nYep. Remember his and McCain ruining against each other? McCain was on the trial defending Obama as a good man, Obama was calling him a war hero. Both were honorable. It’s insane that was only 15 years ago. We live in a different country now.",
">\n\nIf they actually were talking good about each other in their presidential debate that's quite heartwarming , trump vs Clinton and trump vs biden speeches were complete shitshows with both of them just trashing each other",
">\n\nSee if you can look up some old news videos. Sure, both sides had their differences and did a lot of mudslinging, but Obama, McCain, and even Romney all showed mutual respect for each other. They'll shit talk each other during the campaign to some degree, but they were all mostly good to each other and defended each other's character when someone went too far, McCain especially.\n... That level of political respect basically evaporated the moment Trump announced his candidacy.",
">\n\nI think Obama will rated as a middle of the road, maybe a little higher. He was an effective president and will be rated as so. But he will be downgraded because his ceiling was so high. And frankly a once in a generation talent politician, a very effective organizer of his coalition plus being the first Black President, he should have been more effective. Time will tell, but on paper he should have accomplished a hell of a lot more.",
">\n\nObama will be remembered positively going forward. His presidency led us out of the horrible financial crisis of the Bush presidency. When he left office the economy was booming in which Trump rode his coattails for the first 18 months of his presidency.\nThe US was respected around the world. He formed numerous partnerships and joined numerous treaties that left our Country in a stronger standing than before his presidency. \nThere should have been an investigation of W Bush for his lies about starting the Iraq war. If crimes were committed then there should have been lengthy jail sentences handed down. Instead, there were no investigations or hearings to determine what really happened.\nHis term was sandwiched between the worse two POTUSs of modern history. So he will be remembered in a more positive light for that reason as well."
] |
>
I believe Obama will be viewed similarly as Lyndon Johnson.
For his domestic triumphs and his foreign policy disappointments but not to the extent that Johnson was with Vietnam.
Domestically he will be viewed as navigating an incredible recovery to the Great Recession, the ACA, he will be credited with the social changes to gay marriage and the expansion of rights, the removal of troops from Iraq, Dodd-Frank, the President who got Bin Laden, and the repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell.
However certain failures will loom as time goes on. His weak positions on Syria, the Arab Spring and Russian invasions of Ukraine in 2014. His failures to clamp down on corruption in Afghanistan, and domestically his inability to get any kind of reasonable reform in the aftermath of Sandy Hook.
Overall I believe he will be positioned highly as he never really had a “scandal” that was actually serious. The only one that truly was was the drug gun bust and even then that was minor.
To me, he is the millennial generation’s JFK if JFK wasn’t assassinated.
Will he be top 3? No, will he be top 5? Maybe? Will he be top 10 certainly. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this.",
">\n\nOverall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.\nObviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.\nSo yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president.",
">\n\n\nbut in terms of matters that are actually relevant\n\nI disagree here. I think his race alone was/is historic, and for that reason alone, he will remain as a well-remembered president in American history. Race played a big role in the 2010s, especially on topics like police brutality and the Black Lives Matter protests, which exploded during this time due to everyone suddenly having a phone with a camera and internet.\nObviously his other stuff is important, but 50-100 years in the future, I don't think people will remember a healthcare bill passed in 2009 or what happened in Afghanistan in 2011. But they will remember who the first Black president was.",
">\n\nLike I said, part of his legacy will obviously be being the first African-American President, but we’re also poised to have a political leaders from minority groups in the future, so I doubt that will be that big a deal say thirty or fifty years from now, and certainly wouldn’t be enough of a reason alone to keep him in good memories historically speaking.\nThat being said, as I said before, in light of his actual accomplishments and what occurred during his two terms in office, he’s likely to be remembered decently. The ACA qualifies as an accomplishment, despite it not being supported by ~50% of Americans, people will remember that as an example of Obama doing something.\nBut most of all, by far, I believe Obama will be remembered for his role in foreign policy, particularly that of the Middle East. He oversaw the end of the Iraq War, the rise of Isis, and the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. He may have achieved mixed results in those regards, but he’ll still definitely be remembered for those events mainly, because to put it plainly, they’re the most significant.\nAs for police brutality and the rise of BLM, most events in that regard occurred late in Trump’s term. Trump was elected mainly due to dissatisfaction with the ruling establishment in the mid-2010s, sort of the runoff of the Tea Party movement. Racial tensions played little to no role in his Presidency until 2020.\nThat being said, Trump is unlikely to be remembered fondly by historians, (unless he somehow gets re-elected in 2024 Grover Cleveland style and turns it around). I try to be as politically neutral as possible with my reasoning, but for obvious reasons Trump will be remembered poorly, that’s kind of just a fact. Honestly I doubt in thirty or fifty years many people will remember much about him besides Jan 6/the election plus tweets.",
">\n\nI think Obama, in 50-100 years will be considered a Great President. He overcame few hurdles any previous president even faced. Never mind manage the country through the Great Recession without a single scandal.\nObama, in my opinion, is one of the “cleanest” presidents we’ve ever had. In my view, Obama was the least corrupt president in the post war period.\nNo, I am not one of those people who blames Obama for what followed. Because the only people responsible for what followed where those who did what they did. I’m not a big fan of “you made me feel this way so I did this super shitty thing to people therefor it’s your fault” weak minded propaganda.",
">\n\nThe only cleaner post war one was Carter. I think Obama’s true legacy is that he was an adequately effective politician and competent executive without being a scumbag. It doesn’t sound like much, but judging by the rest field it must be pretty difficult.",
">\n\nI live in Atlanta, and Barack Obama is (not surprisingly) almost immortal here. Tire shops, diners, gas stations have framed photos of him and Michelle on their wall and good luck to whomever decides to take those photos down. Uber drivers have his photo on their dash. I was at an estate sale the other day and the person who passed had a 10 ft x 16 ft painting commission done of the Obamas and it was in their living room.\nI am not Black, but I don't think it's quite possible to overstate the impact of a black president for so many African Americans. Give the farm teams of both parties, it's probably likely to say outside of an unpredictable event (ie. Biden dying), we probably will not see another Black president for a while. \nNow obviously you don't have to go very far north in Georgia is see a lot of Trump love, but even that is waning, and soon those folks will be on to the next thing.\nI think Obama's legacy will live on for a very long time.",
">\n\nYou’re noting Obama and Trump voters as two completely separate entities which they are not. They never ran against each other, and it’s likely that millions of people who voted for Obama later voted for Trump. I think one of the best sources for OPs question would come from some of these Obama-to-Trump voters, their reasons for doing so and the thought-processes behind it.",
">\n\nThat is only true in some areas (ie. Philly). It is statistically not true in Atlanta.",
">\n\nObama is extremely charismatic and intelligent, which definitely helps his current popularity. Future generations will just judge him based on achievements, so I think his popularity will decline on that alone.",
">\n\nAs a few others have said, I think from a policy and political standpoint he'll be remembered as a stable but ineffectual leader who basically didn't rock the boat.\nMore than that though, I think he'll be remembered for the immense social change that occurred during his administration. Marijuana, homosexuality, and many more things became widely accepted or legalized during this time. I think people will view Obama's presidency as one of great social progress but political stagnation.",
">\n\nDidn’t rock the boat? Republicans tuned their entire identity to “abolishing Obamacare.” I think people don’t really understand how radical most people in the country think Obama was.",
">\n\nI think he will likely be downgraded as time goes on for his tendency to be overly moderate, wasting political capital, continuing many foreign policy mistakes, and not doing anything to shore up American democracy. \nTo begin, I think all sides of the equation are rightfully increasingly dismissive of the game of moderate compromise politics he traded in. Many other posters have mentioned the ACA as a major political victory of his but even at the time people were frustrated at how much energy he wasted getting through a watered down proposal that was frankly not enough to deal with America’s healthcare crisis. Similarly, he’ll be remembered for not protecting Roe v Wade and being not nearly supportive enough on civil rights issues like the early BLM and gay rights movements. So amongst his main group of supporters the general tendency leftward in recent years indicates he’ll likely be perceived as too moderate and truly wasting the super majority he had.\nOn Foreign Policy, you have a continuation of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, a hawkish attitude on Libya, Syria and Yemen, massive drone strike campaigns, and his general poor handling of Putin. There’s also his support for unpopular trade deals in the Pacific and with NAFTA. In many ways, he was a more competent continuation of the American standard foreign policy that came from Clinton and Bush. This foreign policy consensus has clearly fallen apart in key aspects, Afghanistan was a massive mistake, Iraq is a mess as always, Libya is in an on and off civil war with open air slave markets, Syria and Yemen continue to be the worst modern humanitarian disasters in recent memory, and he couldn’t decide if he wanted to take a strong stand with Putin or coordinate for deescalation.\nFinally, there’s just the general fact that this period will likely be remembered as an explosive and key turning point for America. The country is significantly shifting with both sides recognizing the failures of the neoliberal status quo, and Obama was really the last president who wasn’t a product of the new ideological clash. The fact that his Democratic Party backed a worthless candidate in 2016 will be judged harshly. The fact that he didn’t fight harder against the trump administration will be judged harshly. Him sticking to norms while republicans consistently didn’t will be judged harshly. \nI remember in 2016, Michelle Obama said “when they go low we go high” at that point it seemed like a good positive note. Now it seems part and parcel with the democrats failures in the modern era. They went high and their enemies went low, but a moral high ground won’t matter when abortions banned.",
">\n\nObama era was a wasted opportunity, but nobody really understood how badly republicans would react.\nMostly agree with this. Ive been trying to get Democrats to be way more aggressive with weaponizing the debt ceiling, such as threatening to exit the federal reserve system, because Republicans have no way out of it unless Democrats give them one.\nThe Republicans only power in any occasion is the power Democrats give them since the entire federal credit rating is based on tax dollars that flow from blue states.\nWithout Democratic leaning states paying the nations bills, the Republican party would simply be another confederacy and would quickly devolve into the 'trashy states of America'. Those states would quickly rip themselves apart.",
">\n\nWas he windsurfing or para-sailing during the first weekend of the Trump presidency when the country was protesting the Muslim ban?",
">\n\nHe'll be remembered as the last decent President before America lost its damn mind.",
">\n\nYep. Remember his and McCain ruining against each other? McCain was on the trial defending Obama as a good man, Obama was calling him a war hero. Both were honorable. It’s insane that was only 15 years ago. We live in a different country now.",
">\n\nIf they actually were talking good about each other in their presidential debate that's quite heartwarming , trump vs Clinton and trump vs biden speeches were complete shitshows with both of them just trashing each other",
">\n\nSee if you can look up some old news videos. Sure, both sides had their differences and did a lot of mudslinging, but Obama, McCain, and even Romney all showed mutual respect for each other. They'll shit talk each other during the campaign to some degree, but they were all mostly good to each other and defended each other's character when someone went too far, McCain especially.\n... That level of political respect basically evaporated the moment Trump announced his candidacy.",
">\n\nI think Obama will rated as a middle of the road, maybe a little higher. He was an effective president and will be rated as so. But he will be downgraded because his ceiling was so high. And frankly a once in a generation talent politician, a very effective organizer of his coalition plus being the first Black President, he should have been more effective. Time will tell, but on paper he should have accomplished a hell of a lot more.",
">\n\nObama will be remembered positively going forward. His presidency led us out of the horrible financial crisis of the Bush presidency. When he left office the economy was booming in which Trump rode his coattails for the first 18 months of his presidency.\nThe US was respected around the world. He formed numerous partnerships and joined numerous treaties that left our Country in a stronger standing than before his presidency. \nThere should have been an investigation of W Bush for his lies about starting the Iraq war. If crimes were committed then there should have been lengthy jail sentences handed down. Instead, there were no investigations or hearings to determine what really happened.\nHis term was sandwiched between the worse two POTUSs of modern history. So he will be remembered in a more positive light for that reason as well.",
">\n\nObama will be viewed as the first victim of open Republican obstructionism and anti-American activity."
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Hard to say.
Oftentimes the policies and decisions made by presidents take time to flesh out. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this.",
">\n\nOverall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.\nObviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.\nSo yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president.",
">\n\n\nbut in terms of matters that are actually relevant\n\nI disagree here. I think his race alone was/is historic, and for that reason alone, he will remain as a well-remembered president in American history. Race played a big role in the 2010s, especially on topics like police brutality and the Black Lives Matter protests, which exploded during this time due to everyone suddenly having a phone with a camera and internet.\nObviously his other stuff is important, but 50-100 years in the future, I don't think people will remember a healthcare bill passed in 2009 or what happened in Afghanistan in 2011. But they will remember who the first Black president was.",
">\n\nLike I said, part of his legacy will obviously be being the first African-American President, but we’re also poised to have a political leaders from minority groups in the future, so I doubt that will be that big a deal say thirty or fifty years from now, and certainly wouldn’t be enough of a reason alone to keep him in good memories historically speaking.\nThat being said, as I said before, in light of his actual accomplishments and what occurred during his two terms in office, he’s likely to be remembered decently. The ACA qualifies as an accomplishment, despite it not being supported by ~50% of Americans, people will remember that as an example of Obama doing something.\nBut most of all, by far, I believe Obama will be remembered for his role in foreign policy, particularly that of the Middle East. He oversaw the end of the Iraq War, the rise of Isis, and the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. He may have achieved mixed results in those regards, but he’ll still definitely be remembered for those events mainly, because to put it plainly, they’re the most significant.\nAs for police brutality and the rise of BLM, most events in that regard occurred late in Trump’s term. Trump was elected mainly due to dissatisfaction with the ruling establishment in the mid-2010s, sort of the runoff of the Tea Party movement. Racial tensions played little to no role in his Presidency until 2020.\nThat being said, Trump is unlikely to be remembered fondly by historians, (unless he somehow gets re-elected in 2024 Grover Cleveland style and turns it around). I try to be as politically neutral as possible with my reasoning, but for obvious reasons Trump will be remembered poorly, that’s kind of just a fact. Honestly I doubt in thirty or fifty years many people will remember much about him besides Jan 6/the election plus tweets.",
">\n\nI think Obama, in 50-100 years will be considered a Great President. He overcame few hurdles any previous president even faced. Never mind manage the country through the Great Recession without a single scandal.\nObama, in my opinion, is one of the “cleanest” presidents we’ve ever had. In my view, Obama was the least corrupt president in the post war period.\nNo, I am not one of those people who blames Obama for what followed. Because the only people responsible for what followed where those who did what they did. I’m not a big fan of “you made me feel this way so I did this super shitty thing to people therefor it’s your fault” weak minded propaganda.",
">\n\nThe only cleaner post war one was Carter. I think Obama’s true legacy is that he was an adequately effective politician and competent executive without being a scumbag. It doesn’t sound like much, but judging by the rest field it must be pretty difficult.",
">\n\nI live in Atlanta, and Barack Obama is (not surprisingly) almost immortal here. Tire shops, diners, gas stations have framed photos of him and Michelle on their wall and good luck to whomever decides to take those photos down. Uber drivers have his photo on their dash. I was at an estate sale the other day and the person who passed had a 10 ft x 16 ft painting commission done of the Obamas and it was in their living room.\nI am not Black, but I don't think it's quite possible to overstate the impact of a black president for so many African Americans. Give the farm teams of both parties, it's probably likely to say outside of an unpredictable event (ie. Biden dying), we probably will not see another Black president for a while. \nNow obviously you don't have to go very far north in Georgia is see a lot of Trump love, but even that is waning, and soon those folks will be on to the next thing.\nI think Obama's legacy will live on for a very long time.",
">\n\nYou’re noting Obama and Trump voters as two completely separate entities which they are not. They never ran against each other, and it’s likely that millions of people who voted for Obama later voted for Trump. I think one of the best sources for OPs question would come from some of these Obama-to-Trump voters, their reasons for doing so and the thought-processes behind it.",
">\n\nThat is only true in some areas (ie. Philly). It is statistically not true in Atlanta.",
">\n\nObama is extremely charismatic and intelligent, which definitely helps his current popularity. Future generations will just judge him based on achievements, so I think his popularity will decline on that alone.",
">\n\nAs a few others have said, I think from a policy and political standpoint he'll be remembered as a stable but ineffectual leader who basically didn't rock the boat.\nMore than that though, I think he'll be remembered for the immense social change that occurred during his administration. Marijuana, homosexuality, and many more things became widely accepted or legalized during this time. I think people will view Obama's presidency as one of great social progress but political stagnation.",
">\n\nDidn’t rock the boat? Republicans tuned their entire identity to “abolishing Obamacare.” I think people don’t really understand how radical most people in the country think Obama was.",
">\n\nI think he will likely be downgraded as time goes on for his tendency to be overly moderate, wasting political capital, continuing many foreign policy mistakes, and not doing anything to shore up American democracy. \nTo begin, I think all sides of the equation are rightfully increasingly dismissive of the game of moderate compromise politics he traded in. Many other posters have mentioned the ACA as a major political victory of his but even at the time people were frustrated at how much energy he wasted getting through a watered down proposal that was frankly not enough to deal with America’s healthcare crisis. Similarly, he’ll be remembered for not protecting Roe v Wade and being not nearly supportive enough on civil rights issues like the early BLM and gay rights movements. So amongst his main group of supporters the general tendency leftward in recent years indicates he’ll likely be perceived as too moderate and truly wasting the super majority he had.\nOn Foreign Policy, you have a continuation of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, a hawkish attitude on Libya, Syria and Yemen, massive drone strike campaigns, and his general poor handling of Putin. There’s also his support for unpopular trade deals in the Pacific and with NAFTA. In many ways, he was a more competent continuation of the American standard foreign policy that came from Clinton and Bush. This foreign policy consensus has clearly fallen apart in key aspects, Afghanistan was a massive mistake, Iraq is a mess as always, Libya is in an on and off civil war with open air slave markets, Syria and Yemen continue to be the worst modern humanitarian disasters in recent memory, and he couldn’t decide if he wanted to take a strong stand with Putin or coordinate for deescalation.\nFinally, there’s just the general fact that this period will likely be remembered as an explosive and key turning point for America. The country is significantly shifting with both sides recognizing the failures of the neoliberal status quo, and Obama was really the last president who wasn’t a product of the new ideological clash. The fact that his Democratic Party backed a worthless candidate in 2016 will be judged harshly. The fact that he didn’t fight harder against the trump administration will be judged harshly. Him sticking to norms while republicans consistently didn’t will be judged harshly. \nI remember in 2016, Michelle Obama said “when they go low we go high” at that point it seemed like a good positive note. Now it seems part and parcel with the democrats failures in the modern era. They went high and their enemies went low, but a moral high ground won’t matter when abortions banned.",
">\n\nObama era was a wasted opportunity, but nobody really understood how badly republicans would react.\nMostly agree with this. Ive been trying to get Democrats to be way more aggressive with weaponizing the debt ceiling, such as threatening to exit the federal reserve system, because Republicans have no way out of it unless Democrats give them one.\nThe Republicans only power in any occasion is the power Democrats give them since the entire federal credit rating is based on tax dollars that flow from blue states.\nWithout Democratic leaning states paying the nations bills, the Republican party would simply be another confederacy and would quickly devolve into the 'trashy states of America'. Those states would quickly rip themselves apart.",
">\n\nWas he windsurfing or para-sailing during the first weekend of the Trump presidency when the country was protesting the Muslim ban?",
">\n\nHe'll be remembered as the last decent President before America lost its damn mind.",
">\n\nYep. Remember his and McCain ruining against each other? McCain was on the trial defending Obama as a good man, Obama was calling him a war hero. Both were honorable. It’s insane that was only 15 years ago. We live in a different country now.",
">\n\nIf they actually were talking good about each other in their presidential debate that's quite heartwarming , trump vs Clinton and trump vs biden speeches were complete shitshows with both of them just trashing each other",
">\n\nSee if you can look up some old news videos. Sure, both sides had their differences and did a lot of mudslinging, but Obama, McCain, and even Romney all showed mutual respect for each other. They'll shit talk each other during the campaign to some degree, but they were all mostly good to each other and defended each other's character when someone went too far, McCain especially.\n... That level of political respect basically evaporated the moment Trump announced his candidacy.",
">\n\nI think Obama will rated as a middle of the road, maybe a little higher. He was an effective president and will be rated as so. But he will be downgraded because his ceiling was so high. And frankly a once in a generation talent politician, a very effective organizer of his coalition plus being the first Black President, he should have been more effective. Time will tell, but on paper he should have accomplished a hell of a lot more.",
">\n\nObama will be remembered positively going forward. His presidency led us out of the horrible financial crisis of the Bush presidency. When he left office the economy was booming in which Trump rode his coattails for the first 18 months of his presidency.\nThe US was respected around the world. He formed numerous partnerships and joined numerous treaties that left our Country in a stronger standing than before his presidency. \nThere should have been an investigation of W Bush for his lies about starting the Iraq war. If crimes were committed then there should have been lengthy jail sentences handed down. Instead, there were no investigations or hearings to determine what really happened.\nHis term was sandwiched between the worse two POTUSs of modern history. So he will be remembered in a more positive light for that reason as well.",
">\n\nObama will be viewed as the first victim of open Republican obstructionism and anti-American activity.",
">\n\nI believe Obama will be viewed similarly as Lyndon Johnson. \nFor his domestic triumphs and his foreign policy disappointments but not to the extent that Johnson was with Vietnam.\nDomestically he will be viewed as navigating an incredible recovery to the Great Recession, the ACA, he will be credited with the social changes to gay marriage and the expansion of rights, the removal of troops from Iraq, Dodd-Frank, the President who got Bin Laden, and the repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell.\nHowever certain failures will loom as time goes on. His weak positions on Syria, the Arab Spring and Russian invasions of Ukraine in 2014. His failures to clamp down on corruption in Afghanistan, and domestically his inability to get any kind of reasonable reform in the aftermath of Sandy Hook. \nOverall I believe he will be positioned highly as he never really had a “scandal” that was actually serious. The only one that truly was was the drug gun bust and even then that was minor.\nTo me, he is the millennial generation’s JFK if JFK wasn’t assassinated.\nWill he be top 3? No, will he be top 5? Maybe? Will he be top 10 certainly."
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Depends on by who. Liberals will continue to look back on his presidency as a golden age, the last time that politics felt like what they think he should be. The trend for left leaning people has been to view him worse and worse as time goes on, from well-meaning but thwarted to inept and self-obsessed, and that will probably intensify. As far as I can tell the right has actually softened on him though, or at least they just care about him less, he still hasn't spawned anything like the conspiracy theories that have surrounded the Clinton and Biden families. | [
"He'll be remembered for being the first non-white president and for chartering us out of a major recession plus the Affordable Care Act.\nMost of his foreign policy achievements were erased by Trump out of spite, but I think the defining foreign policy view will have been his reluctance to really stand up to Putin. \nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.",
">\n\n\nOverall, I think his legacy will be that of a good intentioned president who probably squandered a lot of political capital trying to appease an opposition party that was united against him.\n\nGot it right off the bat.\nMeant well, wasted his Presidency trying to placate people who wanted him dead - and that fetishizing of compromise paved the way for the nightmare that followed.",
">\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle. \nAnd then when they refuse to budge, the administration can paint them as rigid partisans. And afterwards, you can walk away and say, \"Everyone saw that we really tried to reach out to the opposing party, to no avail. We're going to do this our way, because we never got any input from them.\"\nObama wasn't good at manipulating his opposition. Bill Clinton was great at that! Obama also wasn't good at communicating his successes to the public. He requested and signed a tax cut bill, and made minimal effort to get credit for it.",
">\n\n\nThere's nothing wrong with looking for compromise. Compromise is a great place to start, and a great way to show independents that you made an effort to meet in the middle.\n\nI vehemently disagree. There absolutely is something wrong with looking for compromise.\nYou may accept compromise, you may settle for compromise, but if you start out with compromise as your goal from the outset, you've already lost. \nYou've said that whatever is it you want, you've already given up on getting it - and you've made your new definition of success dependent on your opponent cooperating with you, too.\nAnd that's how Obama wasted his entire Presidency.",
">\n\nI don’t completely agree. I’d like to find some middle ground with your comment, but I have a feeling you’re not one to compromise. 😀",
">\n\nI realize you're joking, but I encounter people who say what you're saying in perfect seriousness, and they genuinely baffle me.\nWhy on earth would anyone have a goal for themselves of not getting everything they want? \nYou're unlikely to get everything you want, sure, but what's the point of giving up before you even try? \nAnd why are such people always surprised that giving up doesn't yield great results? It's like watching someone start a race by shooting themself in the leg.",
">\n\nI’ll answer seriously now. \nIn the game of politics, in almost all cases, nobody gets everything they want.\nFor example, I am a libertarian. I want the federal government to stay out of social issues like abortion and marriage. I also want the federal budget drastically reduced (less on global wars and less on the “war on drugs”). Whether someone is a Republican or Democrat, they will likely agree with me on about half of the issues. \nWhat’s interesting is what I see with other libertarians. If my fellow libertarians and I imagine a desired future, we might agree on what it looks like. Let’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen. \nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat. Many of my fellow libertarians would never take that deal because they say it’s an increase to the budget rather than a 30% decrease. So, in this example, who is the more effective leader? If we don’t do the deal, then the budget will continue to grow by maybe 5% per year. A cap on growth is more pragmatic and more effective, in this example, than trying to hold the line on a position that will never materialize.",
">\n\n\nLet’s say a 30% reduction to the federal budget. Pragmatically, I realize that there is not enough support from Rs or Ds to ever let that happen.\nIf given a proposal that allows for 1% annual growth in the federal budget for the next 20 years, I’d agree to it in a heartbeat.\n\nBut can you not see how you started with the 30% and then were happy with the 1% you didn't like because it was less than something you disliked even more? You are doing exactly what you argue against.",
">\n\nAre you being serious or joking now? I never argued anything.\nI made a joke, saying that you seem like someone who doesn’t compromise. You followed up with a question. I provided an answer with an example.\nCompromise, by definition, is two parties accepting an outcome that is not entirely what either wants.",
">\n\nSeems we both fell for a case of mistaken identity.",
">\n\nI think so...\n-President's normally become more popular once they leave office and are no longer a source for controversy.\n-Unlike Bill Clinton, he never really had any major personal scandals which will weigh on his legacy\n-He became the first President to take major action on Gay Rights, and Gay Rights became a lot more popular once he left office. History seems to be on his side here. He also green-lighted the legalization of Marijuana in Blue States, passed Lily Ledbetter fair pay, implemented DACA, and appointed two solidly liberal SCOTUS justices.\n-The ACA is basically the law of the land now, the GOP has given up on trying to repeal it and more and more Red States are gradually adopting Medicare expansion. History seems to be on his side here too.\n-He navigated the US out of the Recession by passing the ARRA and additional stimulus. Dodd-Frank has been underrated effective despite being criticized by the Left and the Right. All this despite being opposed by a GOP which was willing to try to force a Default.\n-Foreign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy. He killed Bin Laden and withdrew most of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. But he struggled to handle the fall out of the Arab Spring and achieve long term stability in the region. And he escalated the Drone War.\nI think hindsight is always kind of 50/50 in FP. For example, people blame him for not doing more against Putin, but forget the fact that Western Europe was largely disinterested once it seemed like Russia would stop at Crimea and Donbass, and that Obama's sanctions did provoke a currency crisis and recession in Russia, and the threat of another currency crisis led Russia to spend years building up their foreign reserves before resuming the war. To what extent are future events Obama's fault, or was he simply doing the best managing the situation at hand?\nPersonally, I would probably put him in the upper third of American Presidents. He moved the US in a liberal direction on social issues which have become more popular with the public since he's left office, passed the ACA which has also become more popular since he left office, and navigated out of the recession better than most European countries.",
">\n\n\nForeign Policy will likely be the most controversial part of Obama's legacy\n\nIt's interesting that his objectively largest foreign policy success, the Iran nuclear deal, almost never gets mentioned. It's likely because Trump ripped it up, but it was a clear mechanism to reduce nuclear danger in the middle east for at least a decade and should be looked back at as a success.",
">\n\nIt's always hard to tell when you're not far removed from it, but on the whole I think he'll be viewed favorably. Not many scandals to speak of, decent stewardship of the government and economy, nice bounceback from the 2008 crash. His lows weren't very low, but on the opposite of that his highs weren't very high. He had one big piece of legislation early in his administration and even that is still being judged. He was a stable, even handed, stoic, and rational leader, but he also seemed to lack to will to swing for the fence or take any kind of risk. And outside of the Bin Laden raid he really didn't make many great decisions when it came to defense. \nBut it's still entirely too soon to trot out the rankings. My personal line is 50 years. You can't judge presidential rankings by the standards of your own time. People thought Reagan was the shit after he left but that facade is already starting to show some cracks, and even his time in office was less than stellar. There's also the \"Jimmy Carter\" effect where a presidents time after leaving office changes your stance on their presidency. Carters administration was a disaster, but he's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too. \nYou can also look at someone like JFK that was heavily praised after his assassination, but closer scrutiny of his administration shows that things were actually pretty dysfunctional behind the scenes and a lot of bad policy was enacted. Time gives the ability to fairly judge.",
">\n\n\nhe's done so much good after leaving office that people think more of him now than they did when he left. We're starting to see that a little bit with W., too.\n\nWait, what? What has Dubya done since leaving office to rehabilitate his image besides take up painting and pointing to the next Republican and saying, \"Hey, at least I'm not this asshole, right?\"",
">\n\nHis policy center regularly hosts free events advocating for education and women's health, he's a huge fundraiser for veterans causes, and he makes regular trips to Africa to raise awareness about cervical cancer. \nListen, he's not my favorite. But that's why I have the 50 year rule.",
">\n\nHis...what?\nLooking it up, I see it's some component of his Presidential library. I've studied politics to an unhealthy degree for decades and I've never heard of it before. The general public isn't even aware it exists, so clearly it isn't rehabilitating his image.",
">\n\nPink Ribbon Red Ribbon is an awesome initiative he put forward. Acts as a counter punch with PEPFAR another one of his Presidental initiatives. It is a fight against cervical cancer. As Women with Aids are 5x more likely to get cervical cancer. So I remember a comment he made - which goes something like - \"we get these women the help they needed with aids, but we lose the fight to cancer\". You don't see it much as - it isn't focused in the US. He does a similar thing with his 2018 GO FURTHER initiative which (like PRRR) partners directly with PEPFAR and the UN. Something like 6 million Cervical Cancer Screenings and like 250,000 treatments have been done for women with HIV or AIDS. \n\nIt is an African project and the American public really doesn't give a crap about what happens in Africa. I really wish Obama listened to Bush specifically on Africa. As the point of how you really fight extremism like Boko Haram is by investing in Africa and not bombing it- which I know is ironic. But, he goes over to Africa a ton. Still does a lot of drives and Press for PEPFAR. Like during the 2014 US -African leaders summit - the Bush institute held an all day long presentation to the spouses of the leaders - the point of the presentations were health care changes they could tell their husbands about. It was a smart idea. \nWhile not the best President and I say that liberally. He hasn't been just sitting on his butt painting. His institute does some really amazing stuff - it just needs better press.",
">\n\nHim in Washington in December on World AID day, it's a good talk. He only really comes to Washington to talk about Aids and Aids related programs. Just to make sure those policies continue. \nIt is honestly endearing.",
">\n\nACA is a big dog achievement. Has helped so many people including myself afford healthcare.",
">\n\nI think that many people have blanked out how bad insurance used to be. Like how you could be denied health insurance for having an illness diagnosed before getting on insurance. So if you get diagnosed with something scary you might never get insurance again. At least until the ACA.",
">\n\nI know for a fact that my father stayed with the same employer he had since before I was born, not out of loyalty, but because he had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\nMy dad's employer knew it, too, and they forced him (and the rest of his family) to move to entirely different states no fewer than three times during his career.",
">\n\n\nhe had heart issues and wouldn't be able to be insured if he switched jobs.\n\nthat's not how it worked. you could switch jobs with a pre-existing condition. You just couldn't be uninsured for a period of time and then try to get insurance.",
">\n\nBefore the ACA, most health insurance plans explicitly excluded coverage for pre-existing conditions. That means if my dad had ever left his job, he wouldn't be able to get coverage for his heart condition. That was the fact of his life his entire career, and he retired a few years before the ACA passed.\nI am gobsmacked by the sheer fucking arrogance to not only tell me that my own direct lived history is wrong, but to base it on incorrect assumptions as well.",
">\n\nAnd there was nothing in HIPAA preventing insurance companies from charging you out the ass for preexisting conditions if you changed providers, which was one of the big reforms in the ACA. If my dad had switched providers, he would have been unable to afford healthcare because of the rate increases.\nI'm really not interested in trying to dig up old articles and speeches to prove my point to someone who decided that my own fucking lived experience was invalid because they didn't understand how health insurance worked pre-ACA so I'm done replying.",
">\n\nif you're in an employee plan, you pay/paid the same rate as all the other employees. have you ever heard of a job where each employee was paying a different rate for the same medical coverage?\nYou can keep talking about \"lived experience\" (despite the fact that it was your dad that dealt with the insurance, not you), but everyone who had a job at that time had the same lived experience, including me. and you're simply wrong about this.",
">\n\nOverall I think Obama will be remembered as a mid to high mid tier president. I’ve looked at a bunch of different Presidential ranking surveys, and most seem to agree.\nObviously he’ll largely be remembered as the first African-American President, but in terms of matters that are actually relevant, he’ll be remembered for the ACA fs, and also what went on with Afghanistan, the end of the Iraq War, Isis, and the Russian invasion of Crimea.\nSo yea, if I had to try and be as neutral as possible, I think he’ll be remembered as a top 15 president.",
">\n\n\nbut in terms of matters that are actually relevant\n\nI disagree here. I think his race alone was/is historic, and for that reason alone, he will remain as a well-remembered president in American history. Race played a big role in the 2010s, especially on topics like police brutality and the Black Lives Matter protests, which exploded during this time due to everyone suddenly having a phone with a camera and internet.\nObviously his other stuff is important, but 50-100 years in the future, I don't think people will remember a healthcare bill passed in 2009 or what happened in Afghanistan in 2011. But they will remember who the first Black president was.",
">\n\nLike I said, part of his legacy will obviously be being the first African-American President, but we’re also poised to have a political leaders from minority groups in the future, so I doubt that will be that big a deal say thirty or fifty years from now, and certainly wouldn’t be enough of a reason alone to keep him in good memories historically speaking.\nThat being said, as I said before, in light of his actual accomplishments and what occurred during his two terms in office, he’s likely to be remembered decently. The ACA qualifies as an accomplishment, despite it not being supported by ~50% of Americans, people will remember that as an example of Obama doing something.\nBut most of all, by far, I believe Obama will be remembered for his role in foreign policy, particularly that of the Middle East. He oversaw the end of the Iraq War, the rise of Isis, and the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. He may have achieved mixed results in those regards, but he’ll still definitely be remembered for those events mainly, because to put it plainly, they’re the most significant.\nAs for police brutality and the rise of BLM, most events in that regard occurred late in Trump’s term. Trump was elected mainly due to dissatisfaction with the ruling establishment in the mid-2010s, sort of the runoff of the Tea Party movement. Racial tensions played little to no role in his Presidency until 2020.\nThat being said, Trump is unlikely to be remembered fondly by historians, (unless he somehow gets re-elected in 2024 Grover Cleveland style and turns it around). I try to be as politically neutral as possible with my reasoning, but for obvious reasons Trump will be remembered poorly, that’s kind of just a fact. Honestly I doubt in thirty or fifty years many people will remember much about him besides Jan 6/the election plus tweets.",
">\n\nI think Obama, in 50-100 years will be considered a Great President. He overcame few hurdles any previous president even faced. Never mind manage the country through the Great Recession without a single scandal.\nObama, in my opinion, is one of the “cleanest” presidents we’ve ever had. In my view, Obama was the least corrupt president in the post war period.\nNo, I am not one of those people who blames Obama for what followed. Because the only people responsible for what followed where those who did what they did. I’m not a big fan of “you made me feel this way so I did this super shitty thing to people therefor it’s your fault” weak minded propaganda.",
">\n\nThe only cleaner post war one was Carter. I think Obama’s true legacy is that he was an adequately effective politician and competent executive without being a scumbag. It doesn’t sound like much, but judging by the rest field it must be pretty difficult.",
">\n\nI live in Atlanta, and Barack Obama is (not surprisingly) almost immortal here. Tire shops, diners, gas stations have framed photos of him and Michelle on their wall and good luck to whomever decides to take those photos down. Uber drivers have his photo on their dash. I was at an estate sale the other day and the person who passed had a 10 ft x 16 ft painting commission done of the Obamas and it was in their living room.\nI am not Black, but I don't think it's quite possible to overstate the impact of a black president for so many African Americans. Give the farm teams of both parties, it's probably likely to say outside of an unpredictable event (ie. Biden dying), we probably will not see another Black president for a while. \nNow obviously you don't have to go very far north in Georgia is see a lot of Trump love, but even that is waning, and soon those folks will be on to the next thing.\nI think Obama's legacy will live on for a very long time.",
">\n\nYou’re noting Obama and Trump voters as two completely separate entities which they are not. They never ran against each other, and it’s likely that millions of people who voted for Obama later voted for Trump. I think one of the best sources for OPs question would come from some of these Obama-to-Trump voters, their reasons for doing so and the thought-processes behind it.",
">\n\nThat is only true in some areas (ie. Philly). It is statistically not true in Atlanta.",
">\n\nObama is extremely charismatic and intelligent, which definitely helps his current popularity. Future generations will just judge him based on achievements, so I think his popularity will decline on that alone.",
">\n\nAs a few others have said, I think from a policy and political standpoint he'll be remembered as a stable but ineffectual leader who basically didn't rock the boat.\nMore than that though, I think he'll be remembered for the immense social change that occurred during his administration. Marijuana, homosexuality, and many more things became widely accepted or legalized during this time. I think people will view Obama's presidency as one of great social progress but political stagnation.",
">\n\nDidn’t rock the boat? Republicans tuned their entire identity to “abolishing Obamacare.” I think people don’t really understand how radical most people in the country think Obama was.",
">\n\nI think he will likely be downgraded as time goes on for his tendency to be overly moderate, wasting political capital, continuing many foreign policy mistakes, and not doing anything to shore up American democracy. \nTo begin, I think all sides of the equation are rightfully increasingly dismissive of the game of moderate compromise politics he traded in. Many other posters have mentioned the ACA as a major political victory of his but even at the time people were frustrated at how much energy he wasted getting through a watered down proposal that was frankly not enough to deal with America’s healthcare crisis. Similarly, he’ll be remembered for not protecting Roe v Wade and being not nearly supportive enough on civil rights issues like the early BLM and gay rights movements. So amongst his main group of supporters the general tendency leftward in recent years indicates he’ll likely be perceived as too moderate and truly wasting the super majority he had.\nOn Foreign Policy, you have a continuation of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, a hawkish attitude on Libya, Syria and Yemen, massive drone strike campaigns, and his general poor handling of Putin. There’s also his support for unpopular trade deals in the Pacific and with NAFTA. In many ways, he was a more competent continuation of the American standard foreign policy that came from Clinton and Bush. This foreign policy consensus has clearly fallen apart in key aspects, Afghanistan was a massive mistake, Iraq is a mess as always, Libya is in an on and off civil war with open air slave markets, Syria and Yemen continue to be the worst modern humanitarian disasters in recent memory, and he couldn’t decide if he wanted to take a strong stand with Putin or coordinate for deescalation.\nFinally, there’s just the general fact that this period will likely be remembered as an explosive and key turning point for America. The country is significantly shifting with both sides recognizing the failures of the neoliberal status quo, and Obama was really the last president who wasn’t a product of the new ideological clash. The fact that his Democratic Party backed a worthless candidate in 2016 will be judged harshly. The fact that he didn’t fight harder against the trump administration will be judged harshly. Him sticking to norms while republicans consistently didn’t will be judged harshly. \nI remember in 2016, Michelle Obama said “when they go low we go high” at that point it seemed like a good positive note. Now it seems part and parcel with the democrats failures in the modern era. They went high and their enemies went low, but a moral high ground won’t matter when abortions banned.",
">\n\nObama era was a wasted opportunity, but nobody really understood how badly republicans would react.\nMostly agree with this. Ive been trying to get Democrats to be way more aggressive with weaponizing the debt ceiling, such as threatening to exit the federal reserve system, because Republicans have no way out of it unless Democrats give them one.\nThe Republicans only power in any occasion is the power Democrats give them since the entire federal credit rating is based on tax dollars that flow from blue states.\nWithout Democratic leaning states paying the nations bills, the Republican party would simply be another confederacy and would quickly devolve into the 'trashy states of America'. Those states would quickly rip themselves apart.",
">\n\nWas he windsurfing or para-sailing during the first weekend of the Trump presidency when the country was protesting the Muslim ban?",
">\n\nHe'll be remembered as the last decent President before America lost its damn mind.",
">\n\nYep. Remember his and McCain ruining against each other? McCain was on the trial defending Obama as a good man, Obama was calling him a war hero. Both were honorable. It’s insane that was only 15 years ago. We live in a different country now.",
">\n\nIf they actually were talking good about each other in their presidential debate that's quite heartwarming , trump vs Clinton and trump vs biden speeches were complete shitshows with both of them just trashing each other",
">\n\nSee if you can look up some old news videos. Sure, both sides had their differences and did a lot of mudslinging, but Obama, McCain, and even Romney all showed mutual respect for each other. They'll shit talk each other during the campaign to some degree, but they were all mostly good to each other and defended each other's character when someone went too far, McCain especially.\n... That level of political respect basically evaporated the moment Trump announced his candidacy.",
">\n\nI think Obama will rated as a middle of the road, maybe a little higher. He was an effective president and will be rated as so. But he will be downgraded because his ceiling was so high. And frankly a once in a generation talent politician, a very effective organizer of his coalition plus being the first Black President, he should have been more effective. Time will tell, but on paper he should have accomplished a hell of a lot more.",
">\n\nObama will be remembered positively going forward. His presidency led us out of the horrible financial crisis of the Bush presidency. When he left office the economy was booming in which Trump rode his coattails for the first 18 months of his presidency.\nThe US was respected around the world. He formed numerous partnerships and joined numerous treaties that left our Country in a stronger standing than before his presidency. \nThere should have been an investigation of W Bush for his lies about starting the Iraq war. If crimes were committed then there should have been lengthy jail sentences handed down. Instead, there were no investigations or hearings to determine what really happened.\nHis term was sandwiched between the worse two POTUSs of modern history. So he will be remembered in a more positive light for that reason as well.",
">\n\nObama will be viewed as the first victim of open Republican obstructionism and anti-American activity.",
">\n\nI believe Obama will be viewed similarly as Lyndon Johnson. \nFor his domestic triumphs and his foreign policy disappointments but not to the extent that Johnson was with Vietnam.\nDomestically he will be viewed as navigating an incredible recovery to the Great Recession, the ACA, he will be credited with the social changes to gay marriage and the expansion of rights, the removal of troops from Iraq, Dodd-Frank, the President who got Bin Laden, and the repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell.\nHowever certain failures will loom as time goes on. His weak positions on Syria, the Arab Spring and Russian invasions of Ukraine in 2014. His failures to clamp down on corruption in Afghanistan, and domestically his inability to get any kind of reasonable reform in the aftermath of Sandy Hook. \nOverall I believe he will be positioned highly as he never really had a “scandal” that was actually serious. The only one that truly was was the drug gun bust and even then that was minor.\nTo me, he is the millennial generation’s JFK if JFK wasn’t assassinated.\nWill he be top 3? No, will he be top 5? Maybe? Will he be top 10 certainly.",
">\n\nHard to say. \nOftentimes the policies and decisions made by presidents take time to flesh out."
] |
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